5
   

How Does One (or Many) Fix a Broken Culture?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 May, 2013 04:57 pm
@hawkeye10,
I recommend you don't say that to your wife, Hawkeye.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 May, 2013 10:51 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

What are you talking about?

Our education system has been exceptionally successful over the past 50 years, and our culture keep progressing. We have a strong vibrant economy, we continue to make social progress and we remain at the forefront of technological innovation.

I hope you don't intend to "fix" that.

The United States places 17th in the developed world for education, according to a global report by education firm Pearson.

Quote:
Finland and South Korea, not surprisingly, top the list of 40 developed countries with the best education systems. Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore follow. The rankings are calculated based on various measures, including international test scores, graduation rates between 2006 and 2010, and the prevalence of higher education seekers.


at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/27/best-education-in-the-wor_n_2199795.html

As for the economy, I don't believe that it's vibrant at all, but that is a more difficult point to prove.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 04:49 am
@Brandon9000,
Quote:
The United States places 17th in the developed world for education, according to a global report by education firm Pearson.


Yes we are doing badly except in the real world and of course when studies disagree with the real world results we should go with the studies instead of the facts.


Quote:
Finland and South Korea, not surprisingly, top the list of 40 developed countries with the best education systems. Hong Kong, Japan and Singapore follow.


Yes Americans are going to such nations for advance degrees instead of the other way around. NOT

Then there are a lot of Microsofts and Facebooks and Apple Computers and such being created by the citizens of those above countries. NOT

Hell by the standards of those studies the founders and creators of those worldwide technology powerhouses are an example of the failures of our system as most did not end up with a degree.

We need many many more such failures as Bill Gate and Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak and Zuckerberg who the studies you love would label as example of the American education system failures.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 05:27 am
@Brandon9000,
I would much rather have my kids in the American education system, then in the Asian education system.

The Asian education system focuses on precision and calculation and yes they have impressive test scores (although there are some problems with the test methodology). The American system consistently produces more innovators and creators.

A report about educational excellence from Pearson has as much value as a report on Mexican cousine from Taco Bell.

izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 08:51 am
@BillRM,
Selective thinking again.

Quote:
Sir Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, OM, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA (born 8 June 1955), also known as "TimBL," is a British computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 11:33 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Timothy John "Tim" Berners-Lee, OM, KBE, FRS, FREng, FRSA (born 8 June 1955), also known as "TimBL," is a British computer scientist, best known as the inventor of the World Wide Web.


Right and strangely it was not firms in the UK that build on that man work and many many others men to make the world wide web a common part of everyone life.

Be that as it may, there been any numbers of times with special note of right after WW2 where the UK have the knowledge and infrastructure to challenge the US in a large number of fields such as computers and jet aircraft, radar and so on.

Anyone who wish to be impressed with the engineering and scientific standing of England only need to get a hold of a copy of a book by the name of the Wizards War written by a Dr. Smith concerning the science aspects of fighting the Germans from the view point of the English.

For that matter you just need to look at the code breakers at Bletchley Park ‎and the first fully general purpose programmable digit computers they developed to aid their tasks along with more limited computing tools.

They was more then the match for the war time computer work being done at the time at the University of Pennsylvania

But their culture/society seems not to allowed the setting up of small firms in people basements and what not that by using all that knowledge after the war that allow the US to shake the world.

Of course driving a computer/mathematician super genius to suicide due to him being a homosexual did not help the UK computer progress in any way or in any manner.

The man work during the war was at the time were still highly secret but still there as any numbers of people in power that knew what the whole western world owe him and no one step in to protected him from such nonsense.

To sum up it is the US culture that seems to be way ahead of the rest of the world in developing technology.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:00 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I would much rather have my kids in the American education system, then in the Asian education system.

The Asian education system focuses on precision and calculation and yes they have impressive test scores (although there are some problems with the test methodology). The American system consistently produces more innovators and creators.

A report about educational excellence from Pearson has as much value as a report on Mexican cousine from Taco Bell.




The Creativity Crisis
Jul 10, 2010 4:00 AM EDT
For the first time, research shows that American creativity is declining. What went wrong—and how we can fix it.

Quote:
It’s too early to determine conclusively why U.S. creativity scores are declining. One likely culprit is the number of hours kids now spend in front of the TV and playing videogames rather than engaging in creative activities. Another is the lack of creativity development in our schools. In effect, it’s left to the luck of the draw who becomes creative: there’s no concerted effort to nurture the creativity of all children.

Around the world, though, other countries are making creativity development a national priority. In 2008 British secondary-school curricula—from science to foreign language—was revamped to emphasize idea generation, and pilot programs have begun using Torrance’s test to assess their progress. The European Union designated 2009 as the European Year of Creativity and Innovation, holding conferences on the neuroscience of creativity, financing teacher training, and instituting problem-based learning programs—curricula driven by real-world inquiry—for both children and adults. In China there has been widespread education reform to extinguish the drill-and-kill teaching style. Instead, Chinese schools are also adopting a problem-based learning approach.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/07/10/the-creativity-crisis.html

You might want to reconsider your position.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
my guess is that the major problem is that we have homogenized our schools, all the attention goes to the dumb and poor, the gifted are either ignored or even actively held back trying to prevent the slow kids from looking so bad. then they get to high school culture where being smart is considered a bad thing.

one thing is sure: the American Education system is deeply fucked.....the economic waste of that system is only the tip of the iceberg.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:21 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You might want to reconsider your position.


No she does not need to reconsider her position however you and others who are trying to sell this nonsense need to show how other nations are beginning to match us in our ability to produce new technology.

As far as TV and computers games are concern harming the children of American I can clearly remember in the 1950s such claims was being put out concerning the then new TV sets coming into American homes and the hours children was watching the screens.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:28 pm
@BillRM,
the last great idea was to keep the kids in school all day all year and make damn sure that they are at their desks and not at recess....what happened to that?

Oh ya, somebody needs to pay for it and our current school year costs are already bankrupting us..... and those asshole scientists could not keep their mouths shut, they just had to present evidence that unstructured play time is critical to human development and that kids today dont get anywhere enough already.

OOOPS!
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:41 pm
@hawkeye10,
As I said before in fact over and over that there is no end of doom saying considering the next generation of American children that never seem to happen.

In my 64 years I can remember more then one wave of crying that other nations will pass us by due to the shortcoming of our children.

Hell one need to wonder if such crying had always been an aspect of our culture.

I can not wait until the old old newspapers are available to everyone in digit format so we can check if your great great grandfather was writing letters to the editor over the doom that would shortly befall American children.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 12:52 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
As I said before in fact over and over that there is no end of doom saying considering the next generation of American children that never seem to happen.
the draining of America of living wage jobs over the last 30 years should have indicated that doomsday is already here. we increasingly can not compete in the job market. our education system is in part tasked with getting youth ready to be productive members of society, and it largely fails.........as it presents huge bills for its services year after year, bills that always grow faster than inflation.

Houston, we have a problem!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 01:55 pm
@hawkeye10,
h
Quote:
e draining of America of living wage jobs over the last 30 years should have indicated that doomsday is already here. we increasingly can not compete in the job market.


The last I look we have the greatest productive in the world although for a short time we was in second placed in that figure.

Not bad being in first or second place as far as our workforce is concern now is it!!!!

Quote:


http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500395_162-3228735.html

American workers stay longer in the office, at the factory or on the farm than their counterparts in Europe and most other rich nations, and they produce more per person over the year.

They also get more done per hour than everyone but the Norwegians, according to a U.N. report released Monday, which said the United States "leads the world in labor productivity."

Each U.S. worker produces $63,885 of wealth per year, more than their counterparts in all other countries, the International Labor Organization said in its report. Ireland comes in second at $55,986, ahead of Luxembourg, $55,641; Belgium, $55,235; and France, $54,609.

The productivity figure is found by dividing the country's gross domestic product by the number of people employed. The U.N. report is based on 2006 figures for many countries, or the most recent available.

Only part of the U.S. productivity growth, which has outpaced that of many other developed economies, can be explained by the longer hours Americans are putting in, the ILO said.

The U.S., according to the report, also beats all 27 nations in the European Union, Japan and Switzerland in the amount of wealth created per hour of work - a second key measure of productivity.

Norway, which is not an EU member, generates the most output per working hour, $37.99, a figure inflated by the country's billions of dollars in oil exports and high prices for goods at home. The U.S. is second at $35.63, about a half-dollar ahead of third-placed France.

Seven years ago, French workers produced over a dollar more on average than their American counterparts. The country led the U.S. in hourly productivity from 1994 to 2003.

The U.S. employee put in an average 1,804 hours of work in 2006, the report said. That compared with 1,407.1 hours for the Norwegian worker, and 1,564.4 for the French.

It pales, however, in comparison with the annual hours worked per person in Asia, where seven economies - South Korea, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Hong Kong, China, Malaysia and Thailand - surpassed 2,200 average hours per worker. But those countries had lower productivity rates.

America's increased productivity "has to do with the ICT (information and communication technologies) revolution, with the way the U.S. organizes companies, with the high level of competition in the country, with the extension of trade and investment abroad," said Jose Manuel Salazar, the ILO's head of employment.

The ILO report warned that the widening of the gap between leaders such as the U.S. and poorer nations has been even more dramatic.

Laborers from regions such as southeast Asia, Latin America and the Middle East have the potential to create more wealth, but are being held back by a lack of investment in training, equipment and technology, the agency said.

In sub-Saharan Africa, workers are only about a twelfth as productive as those in developed countries, the report said.

"The huge gap in productivity and wealth is cause for great concern," ILO Director-General Juan Somavia said, adding that it was important to raise productivity levels of the lowest-paid workers in the world's poorest countries.

China and other East Asian countries are catching up quickest with Western countries. Productivity in the region has doubled in the past decade and is accelerating faster than anywhere else, the report said.

But they still have a long way to go: workers in East Asia are still only about a fifth as productive as laborers in industrialized countries.

The vast differences among China's sectors tell part of the story. Whereas a Chinese industrial worker produces $12,642 worth of output - almost eight times more than in 1980 - a laborer in the farm and fisheries sector contributes a paltry $910 to gross domestic product.

The difference is much less pronounced in the United States, where a manufacturing employee produced an unprecedented $104,606 of value in 2005. An American farm laborer, meanwhile, created $52,585 worth of output, down 10 percent from seven years ago, when U.S. agricultural productivity peaked.
© 2009 The Associated Press. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 02:15 pm
By the way I am not stating that the US is perfect for one thing we are allowing far too great a percent of the total wealth to go to far too small a percent of the population but that is tax laws and such not that our workers are not tuning out massive amounts of wealth putting all those countries name by Hawkeye to shame as a matter of fact.
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 02:53 pm
@BillRM,
I noticed a study that says that something like 95% of the productivity gains have been skimmed off by the wealthy...if productivity does not do me any good then why should I care about productivity data?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 03:26 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
noticed a study that says that something like 95% of the productivity gains have been skimmed off by the wealthy...if productivity does not do me any good then why should I care about productivity data?



LOL you had not been claiming that the problem is wealth distribution but something being wrong and lacking in our current and future work force and people when compare to other advance nations. In fact that we have a broken culture and that is nonsense.

There is zero wrong with our work force or our abilities to be creative or our children and once more our culture is not broken.

It would of course be helpful if we wake up and force changes in the tax laws to even out the wealth distribution but that is another story and subject.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 03:37 pm
@BillRM,
you did not answer the question, let's rephrase...if these guys are right that productivity data indicates an exploited work force and not a fabulous workforce then productivity data does not advance your arguement....why should I care about productivity data?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 04:02 pm
@hawkeye10,
t
Quote:
a fabulous workforce then productivity data does not advance your arguement....why should I care about productivity data?


I guess that any hard facts that show your arguments might be in error is not of interest to you.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 04:09 pm
@BillRM,
I guess that you are unable to form an argument that your number means what you say it does.

the problem for you is that too many of us have been told to do more work for the same or less money if we want to keep our jobs, as we watch the elite who gave the order get even more rich than they were.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 26 May, 2013 04:43 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the problem for you is that too many of us have been told to do more work for the same or less money if we want to keep our jobs, as we watch the elite who gave the order get even more rich than they were.


An what the hell does that have to do with the subject of this thread that you started!!!!!!!!!!!

This is how you started this thread.

Quote:
I have long believed that the major reason our education produces such a poor result is that the culture in our high schools is hostile to education.


Along with some comments concerning immigration .
 

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