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What is the most important question that all Christians should know?

 
 
Reply Fri 3 May, 2013 07:49 pm
Well you seen my question but I do wonder if most Christians would have the same answer.
 
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 01:51 pm
@reasoning logic,
are you looking for a question or answer to a question? I'll have a go
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 01:54 pm
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
are you looking for a question or answer to a question? I'll have a go


Ill take anything you have to offer just to get the discussion moving forward. Wink
Smileyrius
 
  3  
Reply Fri 10 May, 2013 04:39 pm
@reasoning logic,
Id say that seeing as Christians already believe there is a God, the question all christians should seek to know the answer is "what does God want/require of them?"
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 08:25 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
the answer is "what does God want/require of them?"



That would be a good place to start and there is a place in the bible where it is written in stone and called "the ten commandments" but most Christians do not call it the ten commandments.
They chose what they wanted to be their ten commandments instead.
Smileyrius
 
  3  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 12:21 pm
@reasoning logic,
Smile

The 10 Commandments formed an integral part of the Mosaic law. The mosaic law was made up of hundreds of laws and statues, all important for governance of the physical nation of God, whereby a man would be judged by appointed judges of Israel. Human judges are unable to determine accurately a mans motive, so he would be judged by action. The Mosaic law was rigid and unmoving for this reason.

Jesus however said he came to fulfill the law, and not to abolish it. Gods followers are no longer bound by the physical aspect of the Mosaic law.
The point of jesus teachings was to magnify the principles behind the laws as far more important. Jesus set in place a spiritual nation, one that would encompass people of all nations and had no geographical ties, so Christianity was born. This new nation was to be judged by God and not man, which means that they could now be judged by motive, intention and the thoughts of their figurative heart. A perfect law has to be flexible according to a mans motive, and only God could judge accordingly

The point I am getting at is thatwhile we are not bound by the mosaic law, the 10 commandments are certainly a tool we can use to know Gods expectations and our attitude towards these will show God much of what is in our heart. So a christian may choose to ignore, repackage or recalibrate Gods commandments, but just because he does not acknowledge them, does not mean he is exempt from the consequences of doing so, whatever that may be.

I am always aware that my coherence is not especially profound, so I'll stop now in case I need to clarify a point or three.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 12:35 pm
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
I am always aware that my coherence is not especially profound, so I'll stop now in case I need to clarify a point or three.


I would not say that but rather you are more coherent than many that I talk to.

Quote:
Jesus however said he came to fulfill the law, and not to abolish it.


Have you actually studied the ten commandments? What I am interested in is why is there only one place in the bible that calls the ten commandments the ten commandments but yet they are different than the ten that Christians know of.

The only place where it is written in stone and god commanded and the bible calls them the ten commandments are in Exodus 34:28

It starts at Exodus 34:1.

gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 01:30 pm
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
Id say that seeing as Christians already believe there is a God, the question all christians should seek to know the answer is "what does God want/require of them?"


That would be my own take as well.
neologist
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 09:27 pm
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:
Have you actually studied the ten commandments? What I am interested in is why is there only one place in the bible that calls the ten commandments the ten commandments but yet they are different than the ten that Christians know of.

The only place where it is written in stone and god commanded and the bible calls them the ten commandments are in Exodus 34:28

It starts at Exodus 34:1.
You continue to post this question in spite of it having been rationally answered at least twice. There has got to be something more going on here than meets the eye.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 09:31 pm
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:
smiley wrote:
Id say that seeing as Christians already believe there is a God, the question all christians should seek to know the answer is "what does God want/require of them?"
That would be my own take as well.
Agreed. Why do your posts constantly get voted down? Have folks been practicing gunga control? Laughing
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 09:38 pm
@neologist,
There are four or five people routinely voted down, regardless of content. It's more personality than substance.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 09:55 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:
There are four or five people routinely voted down, regardless of content. It's more personality than substance.
I don't generally agree with gunga. I just think routine down posting, or whatever, is counterproductive. Same with up posting, I surmise.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 May, 2013 11:26 pm
@neologist,
Quote:
You continue to post this question in spite of it having been rationally answered at least twice. There has got to be something more going on here than meets the eye.


Sorry about that neologist, I am forgetful. Would you kindly copy and pate this rational answer again? Maybe I missed it somehow before or did not think about it hard enough.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 04:09 am
@reasoning logic,
Check Smiley's post above. I'll try to remember to get back when I don't have to use this phone.
0 Replies
 
Smileyrius
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 05:46 am
@reasoning logic,
Sorry if my answer was not direct, it was not by design. I'll try to do better.

I can honestly say I did not know this before I studied it last night.
If you asked me what the ten commandments were, Id probably have gotten it wrong, as my understanding was according to my early childhood. however you raise a great insight into a common misconception. The ten commandments are as follows.

I. Thou shalt worship no other god.
II. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
III. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep.
IV. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
V. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest,
and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
VI. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God.
VII. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
VIII. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
IX. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
X. Thou shalt not seethe a kid [ie, a young goat] in his mother’s milk.[/quote]

It is important to remember that the words of the scripture call it more widely "the covenant—the Ten Commandments." This covenant is no longer in place, so by the letter of the law, a christian is not bound by them.

The 10 commandments portrayed by christianity are all good guidelines, but as to why these were chosen and taught as doctrine is beyond me. There were a large number of commandments that have just as much importance to a christian, that show in more detail what is expected of us.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 08:45 am
@Smileyrius,
Quote:
I. Thou shalt worship no other god.
II. Thou shalt make thee no molten gods.
III. The feast of unleavened bread thou shalt keep.
IV. Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest.
V. Thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest,
and the feast of ingathering at the year’s end.
VI. Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before the Lord God.
VII. Thou shalt not offer the blood of my sacrifice with leaven.
VIII. Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.
IX. The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.
X. Thou shalt not seethe a kid [ie, a young goat] in his mother’s milk.



Very enlightening.


There were a large number of commandments that have just as much importance to a christian, that show in more detail what is expected of us.

This does seem to be true.

I wonder why God found it important to include the last commandment Thou shalt not boil a kid [ie, a young goat] in his mother’s milk
It seems that he may have been able to come up with a commandment that was more useful in the area of morality. Do not get me wrong because I can not see why anybody would do such a thing as boil a baby goat in its mothers milk, It does seem kinda sick and God must not of liked how it tasted.

Quote:
The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring unto the house of the LORD thy God.


God seems like he wants to be the first to eat what is grown and I bet the burnt offerings were also cooked a special way not to over cook them.

Quote:
Neither shall the sacrifice of the feast of the passover be left unto the morning.


If I am reading this correctly,
This seems like a good commandment here, Could you imagine the smell if the people did leave leftovers after a party that big? God would have had a mess to clean up that not even Moses would have wanted to deal with.

0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 09:38 am
@reasoning logic,
Is blind faith the antidote to doubts about Christianity? Christians seem to have only blind faith... how can that overcome doubts? I couldn't practice something where doubts had to be suppressed and not removed i.e. removed at least in terms of the balance of probabilities.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 11:52 am
@Smileyrius,
Citation please, Smiley. Also tell us why the command between III and IV seems to be missing. Is it because there were other commands left out as well? How about ones about not concluding a covenant with any of the surrounding nations, not intermarrying, etc.?

Your previous answer was correct; you pointed out the law was considerably more complex than what appeared on the stone tablets. The reason was so there would be no mistake about the Christ when someone came along who kept it perfectly..

Now, lets cover the commandments written on stone tablets. Recall that Moses destroyed them, then returned to Mt. Sinai a 2nd time. God then re wrote the 10 as they appeared in Exodus 20:2-17 and Deuteronomy 5:6-21. I've shortened them to fit the post:

1] You must not have any other god but me.
2] You must not make for yourself an idol of any kind
3] You must not misuse the name of the Lord your God.
4] Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy.
5] Honor your father and mother.
6] You must not murder.
7] You must not commit adultery.
8] You must not steal.
9] You must not testify falsely against your neighbor.
10] You must not covet

So where did you get your "ten commandments"? Did you discover the phrase "ten commandments" at Exodus 34:28 and assume it referred to the preceding laws?

Exodus 34: 27, 28 reads: "And Jehovah went on to say to Moses: “Write down for yourself these words, because it is in accordance with these words that I do conclude a covenant with you and Israel.” 28 And he continued there with Jehovah forty days and forty nights. He ate no bread and he drank no water. And he proceeded to write upon the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Words."(Emphasis mine -Often translated as Ten Commandments)

The answer lies in who did the writing. Jehovah wrote the second set of tablets as the first, but he told Moses to "write down for yourself these words. . . ". The Ten Commandments are just as they were written and have been cited over the centuries.

So, I ask you again to cite your source.

BTW, as for not boiling a kid in its mother's milk,there is a reason for that to have been repeated 3 times, I think.
reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 12:00 pm
@neologist,
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 May, 2013 12:07 pm
@reasoning logic,
How about your own words? I don't even have sound on this computer
 

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