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Should Obama pardon the teachers for the cheating scandels that unfolded in Atlanta

 
 
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 05:57 pm
Is it possible that these teachers were in fear of their jobs and made poor decisions?

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Type: Discussion • Score: 8 • Views: 2,508 • Replies: 21
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boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 06:19 pm
@reasoning logic,
The superintendent received a half million dollars in bonuses for "improving" the scores and the teachers benefited as well so I think they absolutely DO deserve to be punished.

Not to mention that the kids were cheated out of an education.

They just need to eliminate the tests. They're expensive and worthless.

I love Ken Robinson!
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 06:27 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
They just need to eliminate the tests. They're expensive and worthless.


I am a poor absorber of reality but I do think that there may be value in what you shared. These teaches are trying to teach the least among us but do you think that it is fair that they should be treated as if they were educating the brightest among us?
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 06:41 pm
@reasoning logic,
I'm not sure I follow...

It isn't like these teachers rose up in defense of these kids and refused to administer the tests. They made the kids take the test then changed the answers for their own financial gain.

reasoning logic
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 07:01 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
It isn't like these teachers rose up in defense of these kids and refused to administer the tests. They made the kids take the test then changed the answers for their own financial gain.


This is how I see it as well but not meaning any harm but if you were to be a teacher of the most impoverished of your state do you you think that you might not as well tried to do everything you could to keep funding to your school even though some of your ideas would be unethical? Maybe you are without sin even though you have empathy for those who score less than others and you would like to see a modest income for yourself.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 07:06 pm
@reasoning logic,
Then they should rise up and refuse to administer a test they know to be unfair.

I have opted my kid out of this testing for going on four years. We refuse to be a part of it.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 08:44 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Is it possible that these teachers were in fear of their jobs and made poor decisions?
Whether or not they feared the loss of their job is of no importance. The student is the top priority for the teacher; or, at least they should be. If a teacher cannot or will not adhere to that basic tenet then they should exit the profession.

boomerang wrote:
The superintendent received a half million dollars in bonuses for "improving" the scores and the teachers benefited as well so I think they absolutely DO deserve to be punished.

Not to mention that the kids were cheated out of an education.

They just need to eliminate the tests. They're expensive and worthless.
The teachers involved as well as the superintendent most definitely need to face consequences for their actions. What they did was wrong, no question about it and as you indicate, it is the children who end up losing.

As to elimination of tests, I must disagree. While testing is expensive, there is a value to it. That said, I believe students should (with parental/guardian approval) have the right to decline taking the test. Of course, if they do, there should be some other way of determining what they have learned. Perhaps a paper of some sort or an oral presentation, either to an entire class or a smaller group (2 to 4 teachers and a department head). It is technically still testing; however, it has flexibility not found in standardized testing.

reasoning_logic wrote:
These teaches are trying to teach the least among us but do you think that it is fair that they should be treated as if they were educating the brightest among us?


A teacher goes into the classroom knowing that some students will have a harder time learning the material (or at least they should know this).


reasoning_logic wrote:

This is how I see it as well but not meaning any harm but if you were to be a teacher of the most impoverished of your state do you you think that you might not as well tried to do everything you could to keep funding to your school even though some of your ideas would be unethical? Maybe you are without sin even though you have empathy for those who score less than others and you would like to see a modest income for yourself.
Then they do not belong in the profession. Teaching should be about the student not about getting extra dollars while cheating the student.
In my years of teaching I never found myself hoping for someone to offer me some disgusting financial supplement in exchange for reducing my students to nothing more than flexible statistical figures for manipulation.

There were students who were unable to learn all the material presented to them. It would have been wrong to alter their test results or change answers for any reason and definitely not for a few dollars. Think of how shameful an act that is. The student is led to believe they are top of the class, or at least be a few points above the passing grade. They then step out into the real world and are faced with a harsh reality. Not only were they not at the top, they were lied to. If a student needs extra help, then it should be supplied. If the material as written and presented cannot be absorbed, then find alternate routes. If dissection of animals was too much or too difficult for a student, my standard method was to have them work up a report on the same creature discussing the entire life cycle. Point being, there is always an alternate route towards determining the student's fullest knowledge and in most (not all) cases, they would shine brighter in certain areas and be a little less certain in others.



boomerang wrote:
Then they should rise up and refuse to administer a test they know to be unfair.
Easier said than done. Not saying it cannot be done; however, there are repercussions which include job loss. Once that happens, their voice is substantially softened.

If the test is unfair, expose it. Get the information to the press, inform the parents/guardians of the students and bring them into the mix and get them involved with the future of their charge.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 08:53 pm
@Sturgis,
I agree completely.

Glad to see you back on board, Sturgis.
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 08:55 pm
@roger,
Thank you roger.

So, what've I missed?
roger
 
  2  
Reply Thu 4 Apr, 2013 09:05 pm
@Sturgis,
I flitched this from the Geek and Nerd Humor thread.

Butrflynet wrote:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/529537_638522572843866_2114005319_n.jpg


It is just so right.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 06:18 am
@Sturgis,
I don't think they need to eliminate all tests, only the high stakes standardized tests.

Teachers have always had ways of determining what a student has learned. I trust teachers ability to evaluate their students.

The teachers at a school in Washington have decided not to give the state's standardized tests and they haven't been fired.

http://news.yahoo.com/seattle-teachers-boycotting-standardized-test-wont-punished-002801163.html

The Atlanta debacle isn't the first cheating scandal and it won't be the last.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 08:31 am
Quote:
As an Atlanta grand jury considers indictments against former top school officials in a test cheating scandal and the annual wave of high-stakes standardized exams begins across the nation, a new survey reports confirmed cases of test score manipulation in at least 37 states and Washington, D.C. in the past four academic years. The analysis by the National Center for Fair & Open Testing (FairTest) documents more than 50 ways schools improperly inflated their scores during that period.


http://fairtest.org/2013-Cheating-Report-PressRelease
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 10:23 am
@reasoning logic,
reasoning logic wrote:

Should Obama pardon the teachers for the cheating scandels that unfolded in Atlanta


Rolling Eyes Are you serious.



The teachers need to be held accountable

Obama should give Governor Deal a medal for taking action and stopping the scandal.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 11:02 am
The teachers in my area taught the children how to take the standardized test by concentrating on the questions they knew would be on the test. Not cheating but bending the idea of what the kids have learned through the year. If we were really interested in what the kids have learned over the year we wouldent give rewards for perceived improvement to teachers and administrators. Just use the information for improvement in education for the kids.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 12:16 pm


Unionized teachers are bad for the country.

http://img2.imagesbn.com/p/9780060096625_p0_v1_s260x420.jpg
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 12:18 pm
@H2O MAN,
Why?

Don't you believe in due process?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 12:44 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

If the test is unfair, expose it. Get the information to the press, inform the parents/guardians of the students and bring them into the mix and get them involved with the future of their charge.


I think the hardest part is getting parents (as a big glob, not individual exceptions) interested in anything to do with school - other than being annoyed at having to rearrange their personal schedules when there are PD or weather days.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 01:46 pm
@boomerang,
boomerang wrote:

Why?

Don't you believe in due process?


I believe in due process and I also believe all of these democrats are guilty.
0 Replies
 
Advocate
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 02:32 pm
I read that only a small number of those arrested will go to trial. Some cases will be nol prossed, some will cop a plea, some will cooperate by providing evidence, etc.

I cannot see any pardons.
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Apr, 2013 04:19 pm


"And oh yeah! This is limited only to Atlanta. Right? You believe that! Right?
YOUR government schools are just wonderful, right?
This could NEVER happen in the exemplary government school your child attends. Right?"

The wonderful Atlanta government schools
0 Replies
 
 

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