9
   

Trick of the Language?

 
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 01:07 pm
@Cyracuz,
Yes Cyr probability regards our knowledge and expectations on the future based on previous patterns...such patterns do exist, but probability is more like a tool to work with them.
Study's on critical social mass for certain cultural and civilizational emergent phenomena are rare indeed and I fully agree with you that they might carry interesting data on how we develop and unfold our group competences...lets hope social scientists come to think on that one of these days ! Wink
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 01:34 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
I saw a program about ants once, and how their entire social structure, which can become quite complex, is governed by chemical signals which each ant emits. I am not suggesting this is the case with humans, but it would be arrogant to assume that our social structure isn't partly determined and governed by biology.
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 01:46 pm
@JLNobody,
Quote:
It seems to me that Nature may have levels of organization we cannot perceive and therefore consider "disorganization" (or randomness).


I agree. Also, what constitutes 'organized' can in itself be quite random sometimes.

What you say about demographic pressures sounds reasonable. Again we can spin it to a matter of probability, or perhaps frequency. With many people living in a tight space, problems and conflicts will arise with much higher frequency, and if the society is going to survive, solutions have to be provided in equal measure.
0 Replies
 
MattDavis
 
  0  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 01:58 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:
I am not suggesting this is the case with humans, but it would be arrogant to assume that our social structure isn't partly determined and governed by biology.

Do you have any other reflections on this:
http://able2know.org/topic/208231-11#post-5271775
The algorithm mentioned here for the "traveling sales man problem".
Uses an analogy of "chemical" signals and "ants".
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 02:24 pm
@MattDavis,
That animation was interesting. It seems to me that this phenomena is active in us humans as well. We even find it on this very forum. The thumbs we can press to vote a topic up or down are equivalent to the chemical signals ants leave for eachother. A thread recieving a lot of attention will be presented first, thereby attracting more attention. Bad selections will just phase out naturally.
It seems to me that this is not a favorable selection method when dealing with issues of a philosophic, religious or spiritual nature, since the popularity of ideas in those areas of human activity seldom equates quality, but that is a bit off topic.
It is a curious dance with humans. The masses move like ants. At the same time individuals strive and rule, but they are also moved by the masses. And yet, sometimes one single individual can change the world... I wonder if ants have heroes.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Mar, 2013 02:35 pm
@Cyracuz,
There is an analogy to be drawn between the pheromone signalling paths of ants, and the paths axons take in connecting to other neurons.
There is also an analogy to be drawn with other emerging connections between "agents". I think we call the emergent behaviors of humans society.
Cyracuz wrote:
... I wonder if ants have heroes.

You might appreciate Godel, Escher, Bach if you like these sorts of ponderings (as I do).
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Mar, 2013 01:08 pm
@MattDavis,
I was thinking more of how we perceive those individuals who do great things. In a way, giving Einstein all the credit for E=MC2 is a bit like giving all the credit for building a ship to the man who paints the name on it's side. Einstein played a key part, and there is no question that his individual disposition singled him out, but all in all it was a team effort.
MattDavis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Mar, 2013 01:15 pm
@Cyracuz,
Oh yes I agree with that.

Credit and blame are more complex than simple causation.
We do tend to take more credit in "self" and less outside than is warranted.
We also tend to take less blame in "self" and more outside than is warranted.

No one is entirely themselves.
0 Replies
 
 

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