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Why Do Churches Get Tax Exemption?

 
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 03:28 pm
@maxdancona,
I know what it doesn't mean... It doesn't mean give billions to the "Roman" Catholic charities so the church can pay it out to victims of church sexual abuse amid the silence of the clergy...

How does this benefit society? The trickle down effect? Not hardly...
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 04:52 pm
@RexRed,
You will get no argument from me on that.

The question is should their be tax breaks for providing services to the poor, running health clinics and making sure underrepresented communities are registered to vote and make it to to polls.

Do you think these activities (all of which are traditionally performed by religious groups) should be tax exempt?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 05:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Our local food pantry endorsed gay marriage and the catholic charities pulled funding from it so my answer is, no...

How can you serve two masters, feed the poor and promote hate?
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 05:59 pm
@RexRed,
So your reason to tax the church is some sort of vendetta due to previous personal conflicts with the catholic church, specifically on the subject of homosexuality. Did you expect them to disregard their "doctrine?" You might not agree with it and find it distasteful, but it's Catholic doctrine, and that shouldn't be a reason to make an exception for all nonprofit religious charities to be taxed.
It's questionable if pulling funding is promoting hate. While the Catholic Church does not approve of homosexuality it does not endorse anyone carrying out any criminal acts against homosexuals and compared to some other churches, such as the westbro baptist church, they're pretty friendly when it comes to how they treat gays. Hate groups are people who go out and advocate violence against gays/various races/religions, etc. I don't see the Church doing that, at least the catholic church. What's their motto.... love the sinner hate the sin.
Anyway, I don't think the catholic church will withhold works of charities from homosexuals.
Do you think if a homeless man who is known by the community to be a homosexual to be not welcomed in a soup kitchen operated by the church?
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 06:33 pm
@RexRed,
Quote:
If you were Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist etc.. yet you were, for circumstances out of your control, homeless, is it ethical to have a Christian Bible crammed down your throat before being offered assistance?

That's opinionated and somewhat a wrong portrayal of religious charities. I think it's the other way around. They first offer assistance and then the "Christian Bible crammed down your throat." And so what? You have the freedom to accept or not accept their teachings.

Quote:
Should your sexuality or preference thereof be questioned before being offered a piece of bread?

I'm quite sure they don't ask your sexuality preference before offering you a piece of bread. Even if you voice your preference I don't think a charity will withdraw it's contributions from you yourself. Sure it may not support programs against their doctrine, but regarding aid, they'll help people of all different beliefs and faiths.

Quote:
Should my tax dollars be given by the billions to churches that question my constitutional identity?

You mean grants given to some of the public/charity services that the Church provides? Does it matter if the dollar return is greater than dollar input. For example helping the poor inner city kids get a good education and when they grow up, they have the potential to help the community rise from its decline. Catholic charities haven't used the money to pay the priests, it goes (as far as I know) to help people of all faiths.

Quote:
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.

Being exempt from taxes is a privilege not a right. The US government has deemed the church to have the privilege to be tax exempt. Deal with it.

And your other quotes from the bible are too out of context to even aid your argument.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 07:03 pm
@RexRed,
Quote:
How can you serve two masters, feed the poor and promote hate?


I don't know, do you feed the poor?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 07:41 pm
@maxdancona,
Do you feed the poor? I contribute only to secular charities.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:05 pm
@Val Killmore,
Val Killmore wrote:

Quote:
If you were Hindu, Jewish or Buddhist etc.. yet you were, for circumstances out of your control, homeless, is it ethical to have a Christian Bible crammed down your throat before being offered assistance?

That's opinionated and somewhat a wrong portrayal of religious charities. I think it's the other way around. They first offer assistance and then the "Christian Bible crammed down your throat." And so what? You have the freedom to accept or not accept their teachings.

RexRed wrote: I have the freedom to donate to a different charity. But I don't have the freedom when the government takes tax money circumventing it to give it to religious charities on my behalf. These same charities take my own tax money and use it to persecute young gay teens to the point of committing suicide.

Quote:
Should your sexuality or preference thereof be questioned before being offered a piece of bread?

I'm quite sure they don't ask your sexuality preference before offering you a piece of bread. Even if you voice your preference I don't think a charity will withdraw it's contributions from you yourself. Sure it may not support programs against their doctrine, but regarding aid, they'll help people of all different beliefs and faiths.

RexRed Wrote: Well this is where you are wrong. Some people do not need to be questioned to see they have a unique sexual identity. i.e. transsexuals, effeminate men, butch women, gay and lesbian couples who seek assistance etc... This is the issue at the very heart of equality that the church has spent millions of donation plate and federal tax money to prevent. Do you think gay people are treated equally when they go to the Westboro Baptist Church for assistance? Yet they (WBC) are tax exempt also. What service to society does hate provide???

Quote:
Should my tax dollars be given by the billions to churches that question my constitutional identity?

You mean grants given to some of the public/charity services that the Church provides? Does it matter if the dollar return is greater than dollar input. For example helping the poor inner city kids get a good education and when they grow up, they have the potential to help the community rise from its decline. Catholic charities haven't used the money to pay the priests, it goes (as far as I know) to help people of all faiths.

RexRed Wrote: I don't think these churches help inner city school kids at all... I think they hurt them. They fill their heads with fear, hatred of others and themselves and "sin consciousness"... Give those last two words some thought. The greatest prisons are not made with steel bars but those created by radical Christian fundamentalism in the mind... Just consider how many people have been irreparably damaged by Catholic schools and their "discipline"... Protestant and non denominational schools cults and witch trials... same evil different name...

Quote:
21 They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.


Being exempt from taxes is a privilege not a right. The US government has deemed the church to have the privilege to be tax exempt. Deal with it.

RexRed Wrote: I deal with nothing that can be changed by a vote... You deal with it.

And your other quotes from the bible are too out of context to even aid your argument.

RexRed Wrote: Was it, I don't thing so...



maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:11 pm
@RexRed,
And you apparently have no sense of humor either.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:14 pm
Our tax dollars hard at work feeding the poor...
http://media.lehighvalleylive.com/lehigh-county/photo/westboro-baptist-church-protest-34ff970129b6696b.jpg
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:16 pm
@maxdancona,
You're not being very funny... Smile
0 Replies
 
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:17 pm
@RexRed,
Quote:
I deal with nothing that can be changed by a vote... You deal with it.


I have no problem with the church being tax exempt, so I don't have anything to deal with, at least in such a subject matter.
Anyway it's funny how I mention westbro baptist Church and you stereotyped all denominations of churches to be like them. And let me guess, you're going to start posting the Westbro baptish Church's hate mongering, and thus thinking that which is sufficient reason to tax all religious nonprofit organization.

I'm wasting my time over silly matters with a silly minded person here so good luck with your endeavors in pursuing your vendetta against the church and changing the current state of affairs by a "vote" as well as overturning the supreme court's ruling.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:18 pm
@RexRed,
Here is another religious movement that "got tax dollars" (if you really mean being tax exempt means getting tax dollars).

http://www.yesmagazine.org/peace-justice/kingian-nonviolence-martin-luther-king-jrs-lessons-for-occupy/mlk-at-civil-rights-march/image_large

Are you against this religious movement?
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:23 pm
@maxdancona,
So was it that tax dollars that fueled the incentive for the movement or a belief in human equality? Tax dollars or not civil rights time had come... Though the cause of the churches who are bleeding our economy they want to take us backward... Should we be paying for that?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:31 pm
@RexRed,
You are pointing out the worst of the worst of religious groups. I am pointing out the best of the best. Religious groups were at the forefront of abolition, the labor movement including ending child labor and the civil rights movement.

Of course you shouldn't forget the important role that synagogues played in not only challenging anti-semitism, but also in supporting human rights for other groups.

Churches and Synagogues have played a key role in positive social movements throughout our history. It is hard to imagine the civil rights movement happening without the powerful effect of the church. The church was central to the communities it served and provided the support and organization that people needed.

Because of your hatred of religion, you are focusing only on the worst examples of religion (and obviously it is not hard to find). But you are missing the clear positive roles that religion has played and continues to play.

No religion, no civil rights movement, much fewer free clinic serving the poor and much less support for stressed communities.
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 08:53 pm
@maxdancona,
Name one of these churches please?

There is is difference between a church, university and hospital too... Not all people who work at these charitable facilities are religious.

The local mercy hospital in my city is being sold because God told the local bishop to give millions of dollar to help defeat gay marriage. Now they are dropping church properties like flies.

Church attendance is way down.. I suppose average informed people don't want the church hypocrites telling consenting adults they cannot love one another.

And all the money spent by the church in Maine and they still could not prevent the general populace from approving and passing gay marriage on the ballot.

In this case the church stood in the way of civil rights...
Ceili
 
  3  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 09:36 pm
@RexRed,
My mom is a devout catholic and was a nurse. The last 15 years of her career she worked in a catholic hospital in the only aids hospice in the province. When she started people wouldn't eat in the same room, never mind touch or care for the patients.
When I was a kid I volunteered at an orphanage run by the church.
I went to catholic schools, where religion was hardly shoved down your throat. I went to school with muslims, jews, hindus, sikhs and various other christian faiths and even gay kids. I was never taught to hate anyone. Ok, maybe Hitler... pretty much everyone who worked at the schools were believers.
My uncle is a priest. He works in one of the poorest areas of Vancouver. He works with the homeless, hookers, newcomers, aged, foodbanks, schools and so on. If the churches paid taxes a lot of this work wouldn't, couldn't happen.
I realize you hate religion. I'm no longer a believer myself, but even I can see the good some churches do. I understand why your favourite target are the catholics. Part of the reason I don't go to church anymore is that I found certain beliefs contrary to my own.
However, even I can give them their due.

RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Jan, 2013 10:05 pm
@Ceili,
Ceili, the best posts here on A2K or anywhere rather are those from the heart as yours diffidently is. They are also the greatest catalyst for change in others.

Now I have a story of my own.

When I first moved to the city I currently live in here in Maine I though I had AIDS. A friend of mine confused me when I got my test results they said negative/positive I am not sure meant I had AIDS...

I believed them like fool. So for a few years I did not dare date or even attempt to find love. I was also at the time part of a religion that "marked and avoided" gay people. I was able to fool them for a time but eventually things fell apart and I was tossed out like yesterdays news.

Well this all left me emotionally distraught and wrecked for much else.

I was homeless for two years and tossed from shelter to shelter. Always miserable and defeated. One day I was at the free clinic and a nun took a liking to me and decided to mentor me.

I told her I had AIDS but for some reason she made me get tested again.

The test came out negative. It was like I was given a new body to live in.

Well I got personal one day while she was counseling me and told her that the religion of which I came from believe I was possessed by demons every time I did gay things.

I said to her sobbing, how would you feel if you were told your love was a devil spirit?

I could see this had had some impact on her. Within a week she left the clinic and decided to go work at the AIDS clinic instead testing people for AIDS. Out of the frying pan into the fire...I admired her so much. To this day I believe in human angels...

There is a serious divide in the catholic church on one hand there are people like you and her and on there other hand there are vulture clergy that have no heart and no place in the church.

I was both hurt and healed by religion.

I think of the recent episode of the "nuns on the bus" woman who every time I see her I am taken back to that clinic and the love and healing I felt there.

I sometimes may seem like I talk in superlatives but it is the divisive part of religion that I object to while the nuns on the bus have my love and respect. Smile
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2013 01:13 am
@RexRed,
This is a bit off topic but if you get the time to watch the whole video, I'm quite sure you'll find it comical yet amusing as I did.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Jan, 2013 08:30 am
@RexRed,
There are many....

Dexter Avenue Baptist Church in Montgomery Alabama. You may have heard of it's most famous pastor, Reverend Martin Luther King. It might surprise you that Reverend was a title, not his first name.

Habitat for Humanity has provided housing for thousands of poor family. It's mission statement is ""Seeking to put God’s love into action".

0 Replies
 
 

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