Is the source of "goodness" an Absolute, or choice?

@Setanta,

If comprehending by means other than the brain and thinking is "effort", then by all means ignore my posts.
Peace, even though you despise my using the term.

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@Brother James,

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….. that NSgy would be thought of as "nothing" …….

I often encounter such misunderstandings. It's absolutely amazing how many different interpretations can arise from the simplest stipulation but esp where even slightly recondite

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That is, Neutral to me was neither this nor that.

In a typical example of which my first reaction was, "this nor that what"

Setting me to contemplate, given "Neutral Spiritual Energy" there must be two other extremes, aha, but what are they

So I Googled, "What is spiritual energy," yielding eighty-three million hits

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&tbo=d&sclient=psy-ab&q=what+is+spiritual+energy&oq=what+isSpiritual+Energy&gs_l=hp.1.0.0i7j0i7i30l2j0i8i7i30.66387.68121.2.70381.7.7.0.0.0.0.173.873.0j7.7.0.les%3B..0.0...1c.1.Bk9fP_JS4FE&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&bvm=bv.41248874,d.cGE&fp=ed69a43da69b0ec9&biw=1418&bih=734

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And since there is no Neutral on this physical plane, what is Neutral?

Before addressing neutrality however, I feel I have to understand spirituality,

….a stream of uplifting spiritual energy through prayer and healing., evidently then a psychological phenom, and on the concrete-abstract scale very near its transcendental extreme

…all of this again leaving me with the conclusion that if I can't express something in short sentences using common terms I shouldn't say it; though as you can see I persist in doing so

But thank you Jim for the opportunity

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The point of my question regarding ["goodness" being an Absolute, or choice?] was to test the waters, so to speak. I possess a Ph.D. in "psychology", but my interest over the last 39 years has been exploring the 3/4ths of Man that are invisible to the brain, and the 1/4th that is invisible to the MIND.
I have a different type of philosophy I pursue. One based on the Whole of Man, and of Life. I do not have much interest in Intellectualism, except as I perceive it as a malady of Man associated with the maturity [or lack thereof] of the Soul of Man. If some on this forum dislike people who have a different point of view, then I can easily move on.
Peace

1 Reply

@dalehileman,

["In a typical example of which my first reaction was, "this nor that what"]
Phenomena that I could put my finger on and comprehend. I searched my data storage and could not come up with an example of NSgy on this physical plane. Which is the reason I concluded my Intuition was a new bit of Truth with which I was previously unaware.
If the Energy of God is NSgy, then much of the Creation begins to make sense to me. That is, how would NSgy, looking into a mirror, know what it was?
Peace

1 Reply

@Brother James,

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Well reasoned, sir.

Well thank you again Jim, what a fine fellow you are, so rare hereabout

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And you help me clarify what it is I am asking?

If that's a q I can only reply."I hope so"

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Indeed, as you surmise, I do not believe good is an Absolute, and yet, its source is the MIND,

I don't remember speculating specifically upon that surmise but yes, one might agree something labeled "Absolute" lying outside the principally mental realm

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and the MIND is as absolute as anything gets within the Creation.

Forgive me Jim, but it was "good," not MIND situated therein, and unless it's HER mind I do 't see how it can be so labeled

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If, as I believe, NSgy is the Energy of Spirituality,

I recall correctly, yes that's the way you defined it for purposes of argument

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God is not "good",

You have to forgive me Jim but this conclusion , at least to me, doesn't seem to follow from the foregoing assumption

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God is NSgy,

All right then, what you're asserting is that you define Her as The Energy of Spirituality--although the Average Clod (me) can't see how this assumption leads to Her not being good

In this connection the existential pantheist would concede Her to possess good just as She encompasses bad. But a2k possesses only three of us and so you'll have to convince the remaining 99,997 participants

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and thus, good is not absolute but relative to evil.

Well yes Jim but still you have to contend with the Typical Blockhead (me) who might respond, "If good were absolute it wouldn't be relative to evil," but I for one don't see how that follows either

I guess what I'm saying, you might reconstruct your argument in more commonplace language, it might be easier to address

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I also make a rather sharp distinction between religion and Spirituality. Religion is of Man, and thus relative at best. Spirituality, on the other hand, is an Absolute, permanent,

Religion, then, is subsidiary. So far, you seem to be asserting that in spite of its common def, as arising from the human mind, spirituality is a kind of abstraction though nonetheless real

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and "the" primal Energy, which we call God.

As a congenital pantheist I'd agree that Energy qualifies under Her Absolute Dominion as does everything else, all its activity therein constituting Her thinking

…though I predict some static from many others herewith attendant

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Peace

A real Pleasure Jim

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Goodness is what you make of it. Is choice ever choice or is it divine intervention? Is anything absolute other than life forming and eventually ceasing in the manner in which we know it? Are figs really all they're cracked up to be or are they part of a vast Martian conspiracy?

In the meantime...or possibly the meanwhile, I think it would be easier to just peruse all your ramblings in one place. Well, at least get started there what with your esogist, liberal lies, Obama love and other assorted 'blogs'.

Being a gentleman and a self proclaimed saint, I won't list the link to your blogging universe. That, I leave to you to add or not...your choice Jimmy.

I was mildly amused, dismayed, alarmed, concerned, not radically inclined, by this entry of yours:

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Let us not dwell upon how easily fooled many Americans were when they completely misconstrued what Obama meant by "change". The only people who were not fooled by Obama, are those who are more enlightened Souls, and those people old enough to remember the hell the Russian people went through when Russia was taken over by Communism in 1917, and then suffered for over 40 years under the totalitarian rule of various despots ending with Stalin, who was quite similar to Hitler and Mao in the numbers of people slaughtered.

I don't care about those who used Obama, or collaborated with Obama to enslave America, I am only grateful that he has failed to accomplish his goal. At least I am hopeful he has failed.

I watched the Republican Convention, and I was quite impressed with the quality of the speakers, and especially the sincerity that seemed to be projected by them. They seemed to be real patriots and successful in what they have chosen to do in life. All seemed to possess a great love of America. And I was pleased to watch this because so much of the media would have us believe that America is almost dead. But this negative view reflects the negativity of the Iron Age of Man. A period of time covering about 6,500 years, and this Iron Age is the most evil age Man must experience. This age of evil ends on 12/21/2012.

It goes on to include this hysterical moment:

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I am writing this blog to make the point that on December 21, 2012, a most important event is going to take place. And this event is more important than who wins the 2012 election, although the election is quite important. And who America chooses will indicate how easy the transition from evil to good is for America.

So, what was this all important event Jimmy?

Anywhos, you continued with more over the top hysteria:

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On a physical level, this would coincide, no doubt, with the shifting of the magnetic poles of the Earth, which science tells us is going to take place during the 3-days of darkness associated with all the planets aligning themselves with the center of the Milky Way and the Sun. This is supposed to take place during the time 12/21/2012 to 12/23/2012.

Is this most unusual occurrence going to take place? Well, we have 111 days from today, August 31, 2012, to wait and see if what the Mayans predict will take place, or not? Many scientists assure us this is going to take place. For me, I'm pretty much convinced that we will see a most dramatic change of the Earth. And if the many predictions of history are even slightly correct, all hell is going to let loose as the date of 12/21/2012 approaches.

I must have missed the pole shifting and the days of darkness.

Then you close with:

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Peace to all, and to my brothers and sisters in Spirituality, please let go of your attachments to the various tenets of your religion, and try to remain open to the awakening of the Spirituality within your own hearts. There is but one God, after all. And try to imagine yourself being deemed "ready" for a life on Earth filled with the presence of God. Please vote for Romney, and in doing so... you vote for yourself, and Mankind as well.

Peace,
Brother James

Does this mean by not voting for the man with the swirling eyes, we will all be doomed? Egads! I was planning on attending a symposium on electromagnetic forces in the Barloquean Sector of the Radodzki Quantloire. The Scardons will attack at midnight!
(see the difference here Jimmy, is I am certifiable, you just want to be)

At the bottom of your barrel Jimbo, I see potential for intelligent discussion. Hopefully, you will able at some time soon to tap into that.

Have a splendid day (or evening if that's what you'd rather).

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@Brother James,

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The point of my question regarding ["goodness" being an Absolute, or choice?] was to test the waters, so to speak.

The Everyday Clod (me), however, might immediately respond that the statement contains some kind of subtle inconsistency, perhaps in grammatical structure; how can I say it

Help me somebody

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I possess a Ph.D. in "psychology",

Thank you, the revelation provides certain insights, you're to be commended for the admission. When I ask others about themselves I'm attacked mercilessly from all quarters as being excessively nosy

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but my interest over the last 39 years has been exploring the 3/4ths of Man that are invisible to the brain,

The intuitive, the subconscious

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and the 1/4th that is invisible to the MIND.

….., the abstract. Yet there's a GP which states that nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else; so if invisible not entirely inaccessible. We can dance around it, so to speak, gaining some vague intuition, at least to what it's not

But together the two approaches explain the popularity of religion and even to some extent justify it

Part of the problem is the degree of abstraction to which you assign MIND in order to distinguish it from BRAIN. To the pantheist's MIND almost nothing is invisible

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I have a different type of philosophy I pursue. One based on the Whole of Man, and of Life.

Yes, She, Her

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I do not have much interest in Intellectualism,

"The doctrine that knowledge is derived from pure reason." The implication being that some of it comes from impure reason

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except as I perceive it as a malady of Man

Then impure reason must be superior on some way. Intuition perhaps, and if that's what you mean I'd agree most wholeheartedly

..but it isn't is it

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associated with the maturity [or lack thereof] of the Soul of Man. If some on this forum dislike people who have a different point of view,

oh, many

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then I can easily move on.

Alas no, please stick in there Jim

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Peace

and satisfaction

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@Brother James,

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[……., "this nor that what"]
Phenomena that I could put my finger on and comprehend.

Forgive me Jim but many are loath in order to refresh a failing memory to scroll back, especially the old and infirm (me), confounded by the inability to do so whilst composing a retort such as this, requiring the respondent to open a2k in another tab, locate the thread, open it, magnify, then scroll to the posting in q

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I searched my data storage and could not come up with an example of NSgy on this physical plane.

Your persistence is to be admired thought I often ask myself, with participants like me and so many of my apparent enemies why do I waste so much time here when I could be doing yardwork or even reading the Sunday Daily Press

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Which is the reason I concluded my Intuition was a new bit of Truth with which I was previously unaware.

Now you're making perfect sense

To me anyhow

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If the Energy of God is NSgy, then much of the Creation begins to make sense to me.

Yes it's the ability to recognize, however imperfectly, The Meaning Of It All. However I'm hesitant to call it "Creation", Reason insisting as it does that the term implies all sorts of contradiction and paradox

More logical simply to assume She's always existed

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That is, how would NSgy, looking into a mirror, know what it was?

It couldn't, She can't, since the mirror is part of Her

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Peace

…..and hope

1 Reply

@Sturgis,

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Goodness is what you make of it. Is choice ever choice….Is anything absolute…...Are figs really all they're cracked up to be…..

In other words nothing is entirely anything while everything is partly something else

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other than life forming and eventually ceasing

Oh quite to the contrary Stu, I'd maintain it to be also very abstract

Please forgive us for getting off onto that "Spirituality" thing

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@dalehileman,

Ha, Ha.
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That is, how would NSgy, looking into a mirror, know what it was?
It couldn't, She can't, since the mirror is part of Her
Good point. But you get my drift... The Creation [or what is] was begun to provide experiential exploration of what NSgy could be? And we Souls are the experiencers [Shakespeare's play], living many, many lifetimes in the process.
What is missed in the West is multiple lifetimes, due to Christianity with its need to limit Man to one lifetime.
Peace

1 Reply

@Brother James,

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…...But you get my drift... The Creation [or what is]

What it is, is Her, a perfectly natural phenom no need to be created

was begun to provide experiential exploration of what NSgy could be?

No, but yes. The apparent reason for the constants having been "adjusted" some within a fraction of one percent, to make evolution a reality, was that without us the entire panoply, the chance bouncing of objects off one another for no apparent reason, in pre-ordained deterministic sequence, would be so absurdly meaningless

In common terms She "created" us so we could ponder about Her and appreciate The Whole Shebang, give it meaning

…..assuring the skeptic my assertions herewith largely intuitive

..the raw materials, however, Her body in other words, not having been created, they were always available. The mechanism of the above-mentioned "adjustment," however, still very mysterious

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And we Souls are the experiencers [Shakespeare's play], living many, many lifetimes in the process.

Yes exactly, the Soul being everything about us except our bodies

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What is missed in the West is multiple lifetimes,

Yes and no. If you maintain that the soul is a kind of entity poring over its past as we do, then only in the most symbolic way. Of course She encompasses all of us forever

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due to Christianity with its need to limit Man to one lifetime.

Yes, no, I can almost see what you're saying, that this religion so limits his bodily existence

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Peace

….and prosperity

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@Brother James,

If it's of any help in resolving the query, goodness seems relative to the observer. For instance what's good for us isn't necessarily good for the porker, suggesting "Absolute" isn't quite the right word. Evidently we need a message from the On High. If She somehow conveys Her explicit approval raising him in muddy pen then hanging him by his back legs and cutting his throat so he bleeds to death before slaughter; or if She proclaims the Near-East treatment of women to be fair and just; then we might entertain it as "Absolute"

However Jim as I had mentioned the very construction of the query leaves some of us confounded. Again, its implication is that goodness is an objective quality, in which how cannot it be called Absolute

You might try rephrasing it. Suppose you're passing somebody on the street who might be some sort of Shallow Clown (me)

If you're asking whether the tyupical humanoid attaches the term "goodness" to activities of which he approves, well then yes it sure looks that way

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@dalehileman,

You make some good points about the giver, recipient's and observer's perception about goodness. It's about "choice" for all three.

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@Brother James,

What i despise is the phony presentation. I can ignore anyone's posts. However, when people spread bullshit, it is my choice to point out how badly it stinks.

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@Brother James,

It isn't a rant, it's a criticism of your rant. What makes bullshit profane? If there were a god (a proposition which you assert without a scrap of evidence), how could a creation of that god be profane? You aren't making sense. I have already stipulated that the substitution of spirituality for religion is acceptable--it's bullshit no matter what label you attach. You have still failed to define goodness, and have now added "god" to the mix, something else you haven't defined, nor demonstrated.

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@Brother James,

On what basis do you believe that goodness has a source? And assuming that it does, on what basis do you believe that "an Absolute" and "a choice" are the only possible sources?

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@cicerone imposter,

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You make some good points

Thank you Cis, your response is a singular hortatory grandiloquence in this otherwise dolorous recrudescence of dispiriting persiflage

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It's about "choice"

That does seem quite apparent doesn't it

Jim seems to be asking whether "goodness" is a subjective or objective but since the answer is so obvious to most of us I had assumed he's looking for some sort of deeper meaning

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@Thomas,

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On what basis do you believe that goodness has a source?

Interesting Tom that you should so inquire because it reflects my own earlier contention that the prop doesn't make sense, maybe on a purely grammatical basis

Meanwhile however I've concluded that we're probably taking Jim too literally

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And…... "an Absolute" and "a choice" are the only possible sources?

I presume Jim intends opposites, eg, absolute v relative, supposedly covering the entire plethora

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@Setanta,

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now added "god" to the mix, something else you haven't defined, nor demonstrated.

I get the distinct impression Jim is assigning spirituality and God to an abstract realm: That is, whether or not She exists depends upon how you define Her

Jim please don't quit, at least not yet

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@dalehileman,

I realize in a heightened sense that my belief that philosophers are given to Intellectualism is not only valid, I failed to comprehend fully, the extent to which the "unknown" is, well, unknown, and must be given a "name" to rise to existence [albeit an abstract one]. NSgy, or Neutral Spiritual Energy is my "name" for the Core Reality of existence. And NSgy [although there is no Reality within the letters NSgy] this symbol only "points to" that for which it is a symbol. What the term NSgy, and the term Reality both point to is an Energy that I suggest is Absolute in that it is: Permanent, unchanging, and exists, although this Energy is incapable of being proven to exist physically or intellectually. I suggest it can only be proven experientially by oneself [the Spirituality within oneself] rising to that plane of existence where Reality [Spirituality, Truth, Love, God] reside.

This means, clearly, that I suggest that there is a dimension of existence that is not capable of being discovered via the brain, or thinking.
Peace

2 Replies

Is the source of "goodness" an Absolute, or choice?

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