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What do these sentences mean?

 
 
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 08:46 pm
Quality for quality'sake
At the other extreme
Take for granted quality
Enchanting quality
"Rounded edges in a world of sharp corners" (the full sentence is "the nano belonging to the man sitting next to me is a marvel, not just of miniaturization, but of round edges in a world of sharp corners)
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Type: Question • Score: 2 • Views: 2,851 • Replies: 20
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Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Nov, 2012 09:37 pm
@Nguyenbaogiang,
The first sentence should read: "Quality for quality's sake." It means that something is done or made with noticeable high quality simply because one can make or do it with a high quality. This is a common, idiomatic construction. The most common example if "be good for goodness' sake." That means to be good not just in hope of a reward, but to be good because being good is its own reward.

At the other extreme implies that whatever came before that described one extreme, and what will follow will describe the opposite extreme. For example, one could say that it is very, very cold in Alaska in the winter, but at the other extreme, it is balmy and pleasant in Hawaii--yet both are in the United States.

"Take for granted quality" sounds somewhat awkward. However, if it were "take-for-granted quality," with take for granted made into an adjective, it would mean quality that one expects, and doesn't particularly notice.

Enchanting quality really doesn't mean anything. Could one be enchanted by the quality of a thing or an action? Perhaps, but it's not a very natural sounding expression.

That last sentence just seems nonsensical, it doesn't really convey any meaning. Nano is what is called a combining form, it's not a noun that stands alone. A combining form means something which is added to another word. The combining form nano means one billionth, or something extremely small. So, a nanosecond is one billionth of a second, an extremely small measure of time. Nanotechnology is very, very small technological items.

If all of this is in aid of promoting products or ideas, don't try to use it on native English speakers--it doesn't sound native in the least.
contrex
 
  2  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 02:06 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
That last sentence just seems nonsensical, it doesn't really convey any meaning. Nano is what is called a combining form, it's not a noun that stands alone.


His punctuation is somewhat weak. I think he meant to write "The Nano" and was probably referring to a portable music player, called an "Apple iPod Nano", which used to have rounded corners although the current ones are square.

http://maypalo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/iPod-nano-maypalo.jpg

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 04:36 am
@contrex,
Well that make some sense, at least.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 05:05 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Well that make some sense, at least.


I know tastes differ, but I really find that gizmo ugly.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 05:17 am
Although i am comfortable with technological innovation, it does not attract me. My phone is a dumb phone. I used a Walkman when i was younger, but long before MP3 players existed, i realized that it was taking me out of my environment, and even endangering me. I've had people walk into me because they were listening to their "ear buds" and not paying attention, or talking on their phone and not paying attention. Are those conversations that important, is that music so indispensable that one would actually endanger one's life for them, to step out into traffic? (I've seen it happen, and not long ago a woman was killed in Toronto when she stepped in front of a truck while talking on her phone.) Personally, i don't think so.
contrex
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 05:46 am
@Setanta,
I remember when mobile phones first became popular, being startled by strangers in the street saying "Hello!" semingly right in my ear, and apparently crazy people talking to themselves. I was on a very crowded morning rush hour bus the other day in Barcelona, near the front, and a schoolgirl next to me took out her iPhone and called her friend, who was on the same bus, but right at the back.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 06:32 am
@contrex,
One thing i hated about cell phones was the high proportion of clowns who felt the need to almost shout into their phones so that everyone nearby would know they had a cell phone. Annoying shits . . .
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sun 11 Nov, 2012 03:30 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
"Take for granted quality" sounds somewhat awkward. However, if it were "take-for-granted quality," with take for granted made into an adjective, it would mean quality that one expects, and doesn't particularly notice.


With or without the hyphens, it means the same thing.
0 Replies
 
Nguyenbaogiang
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:17 am
Thank you. That's some sentences in my text book. Smile
I have another question. Is the word 'the' pronounced diferently when it is put before vowel and consonant? For example: the people, the apple.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 05:19 am
@Nguyenbaogiang,
Yes . . . in the people, the sounds like "thuh." In the apple, the sounds like "thee."
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 09:48 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Yes . . . in the people, the sounds like "thuh." In the apple, the sounds like "thee."


Setanta is misleading you. This "rule" is no rule. It's a possibility just as 'thuh' is.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 10:28 pm
No, Set isn't misleading him at all. That's simply the phonology of the language.
Quote:
Pronunciation note
As shown above, the pronunciation of the definite article the changes, primarily depending on whether the following sound is a consonant or a vowel. Before a consonant sound the pronunciation is  /ðə/ Show Spelled[thuh] Show IPA: the book, the mountain  /ðəbɒɒk, ðəˈmaʊntn/[thuh-book, thuh-moun-tn]. Before a vowel sound it is usually  /ði/[thee], sometimes  /ðɪ/[thi]: the apple, the end  /ði or ðɪˈæpəl, ði or ðɪɛnd/[thee or thi-ap-uhl, thee or thi-end]. EXPANDAs an emphatic form (“I didn't say a book—I said the book.”) or a citation form (“The word the is a definite article.”), the usual pronunciation is  /ði/[thee], although in both of these uses of the stressed form,  /ði/[thee] is often replaced by  /ðʌ/[thuh], especially among younger speakers

COLLAPSE


It really is descriptive, pure and simple.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 10:53 pm
@MontereyJack,
Ah no, Jack. Not at all descriptive.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Nov, 2012 11:19 pm
Completely descriptive. That's what people actually say. You're free to try to convince me that they don't actually say it that way. Why do you think everybody but you thinks that's the way the phonology works?
Nguyenbaogiang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 04:34 am
Really difficult for me to know the difference when they pronounce 'the'. Sometimes I heard that they said 'thee' in every word, even before consonant. So confusing!
why in some daily conversations, people say: she dont like it/he dont drive a car' instead of 'she doesnt like it/he doesnt drive a car'? This is not grammatically right.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 11:14 am
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Completely descriptive. That's what people actually say.


Actually, they don't, in the regular fashion that you mistakenly believe.


Quote:
You're free to try to convince me that they don't actually say it that way.


As are you. But we're not likely to see much in that regard, right?

Quote:
Why do you think everybody but you thinks that's the way the phonology works?


You think the collection of the boob, Setanta and you constitutes 'everybody'. Notice what Nguyenbaogiang said in the very next post.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 11:19 am
@Nguyenbaogiang,
Quote:
Really difficult for me to know the difference when they pronounce 'the'. Sometimes I heard that they said 'thee' in every word, even before consonant. So confusing!


Don't worry about the silly 'rule' that isn't a rule, N. Just follow exactly what native speakers follow in most of their speech, the easiest phonological path.

I'll have thuh orange.

"thee" is mostly used to emphasize that something is thee one special thing/person.

She is thee best tennis player, bar none, in the club.

That is thee best drink I've ever had.

That's the best take away rule for you to follow.
0 Replies
 
MontereyJack
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 04:15 pm
Stressed "the" is a different case. Unstressed before a vowel it's usually "thee" (voiced "th" of course), and before a consonant it's usually "thuh". Despite what JTT seems to think, that is the rule that describes how English speakers in general say the word.

As borne out by the way I use it and Setanta uses it, and according to those people who are professional phonologists and compile dictionaries based on how people actually do pronounce words, to wit (just the ones I have readily available to hand):
Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary
The Oxford Universal Dictionary
The Random House Unabridged Dictionary
Britannica World Language Dictionary,
and whatever source Dictionary.com is using as their go-to reference these days (quote cited above)
Now of course JTT is free to differ, however he has offered no evidence other than his own apparently idiosyncratic use of the language for his opinion.
The evidence puts him in an idiolect of one. I'd suggest you go with "thee" before vowels, nguyen.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Nov, 2012 04:47 pm
@MontereyJack,
Quote:
Unstressed before a vowel it's usually "thee" (voiced "th" of course),


I rest my case, MJ. It's voiced 'th' OF COURSE.

http://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/the

Quote:
1the definite article \before consonants usually thə, before vowels usually thē, sometime before vowels also thə;

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/the


Quote:
As borne out by the way I use it and Setanta uses it,


==============

"As already mentioned, one of the most important uses of corpus-based investigation is to provide information about frequency of use. ... Hitherto this information has been based on native-speaker intuition. However, native speakers rarely have accurate perceptions of these differences:"

Longman Grammar of Spoken and Written English - D. Biber et al

==============

Over the years it's been apparent that Setanta often inaccurately describes English usage. He is not a source to be trusted. Witness your ideas on how 'should/probably/likely' are used in English. And some of the other cockamamie ideas that you've lately presented.

What I described to Nguyen was the wisest course for an ESL struggling with the articles. A person using English at natural colloquial speed would sound idiotic with the definite articles 'the' being over pronounced as 'thee'.

Listen to the unstressed 'the' before vowels at the Collins link above. It's not a 'thee'.



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