Marilyn Manson

I recently got Director's Cut by Fantomas. It has "carnival"-metal interpretations of movie themes. I like the Godfather and Twin Peaks ones the best. It's probably one of the most experimental metal bands out there.

Opeth is a solid metal band. So is Strapping Young Lad.

Einsturzende Neubauten is a very influential industrial band.

"normal" people are usually completely ignorant about artistic merit."

hehe! i dig... talking of my peers, hardly any get out of that mtv fed rut.

i havnt heard alot of manson, to be quite honest. i have heard some stuff, that i was told is older, and of course the recent pop hits. judging from the older stuff, he had a really tight band, and it did sound good...

opeth are pretty good, but to me they sound like they put to much in one song. It starts getting stupid when you have 12 minute songs that dont have a main theme. (comprised of god knows how many contrasting sections)

that aside, their drummer is great, as is the guitarist. i havnt heard much of the rest... i wasnt really listening out! a drummer and bassist played me their cd!!!!

regarding what wildflower said about society. I totally agree with that. If theres one thing i hate its people that dont accept something, and demonize it ,just because they dont understand it. just like all these !"£!"£!"£!'#'589 people my age who are constantly telling one another how 'gay' rock/metal/hip hop is, and me how 'gay' jazz is.

Homophobic a holes...

socialised into simple norms, people end up following like sheep, not thinking for themselves. And who said that not understanding something was a grounds to insult it anyway?

oh and im not gay!

At first, I was COMPLETELY put off by Manson, In fact, his videos gave me more Nightmares than Freddy krueger. One day though, I heard him on an interview, discussing everything from science to politics and realized that he is EXTREMELY intellectual.. so I actually downloaded some of his stuff and tried to keep an open mind... I can't say I love or hate him, but have learned to appreciate the emotion and talent he possesses.

Wildflower I've enjoyed your thread from the start and even added a post or two. I'm adressing the one where you spoke about your daughter getting by on looks and seeing through the subliminal messages in MTV,rap and modern pop. Now I'm not saying Manson is guilty of this(maybe in his videos) but there's a lot of mysoginist messages floating around pop music today and you're right to be concerned. Until this problem is adressed in our society, teenage girls are going to continue to measure their self worth with bogus yardsticks.

I have to give that post a standing ovation!!! Great thoughts on the subject.

I know women aren't supposed to tell their age, but I couldn't care less. Either I get older or leave a pretty corpse. That 63 should give you a hint!

Anyway, one thing I have always found amusing, the popularity of Queen of the 70's. They were always openly gay. They were even bold enough to name their band Queen. That talent is hard to deny, even in times when gay was completely unacceptable.

I do remember what was acceptable about gay people, beating the hell out of them and ousting them from society with false claim they were pedophiles. Sorry, but gay and pedophile have a huge difference in definition. No one can influence or change anyone's sexual preference or we would all be heterosexual. Ignorance prevails, once again! Nothing too new about that. It always does.

Police would look the other way or do it themselves, beat the hell out of gay people with unlawful conduct to intimidate and harrass. I remember young guys thinking gay beatings were entertainment and felt completely justified by such acts. Not like they would ever be arrested for it! I also remember lawsuits by gay individuals being beaten by cops, who lost their case every time.

Interesting how people could love an obvious gay band to this day and how they could justify gay beatings and oppression of the 70's. We still hear We are the Champions and We Will Rock You in big money, sports today. Many years later, still loved music with great talent of an openly gay band, Queen adverstised with the NFL. The same people that think gay people didn't deserve to live also had a Queen 8 track. I call that proof of ignorance.

That does show how people heard and lack of independent thought. People haven't changed that much at all. People are just as closed minded as they always were. I honestly don't believe most people love art or know artistic merit at all. I believe people follow the popular opinion, as they did in the 70's justifying beating and oppression of gay people.

Most people are not able to evaluate or appreciate artistic expression. Only those who love art and understand it are able to do this. Most people are after entertainment and object to anything socially out of the norm, completely ignoring an artist and the message intended.

Why are people so easily offended? I never will understand oppression of any sort. People bitch and complain about Eminem. This guy cracks me up because he is bold enough to say exactly what he thinks, without stressing out over how he chooses to word his lyrics.

I thought American's valued freedom of speech and expression, or do they???

BTY, thanks for the band suggestions!! Please keep it coming. I am starved for good music and love rock!

Amen about Emineme Wildflower... I dont' really like His music all that much, but I love his personality.

I've never liked his music, but I respect him for being an honest musician.

I think Eminem could have been a lot better than what he is. I see rap as a singular talent, someone good with lyrics and knows how to spout it off. There is no merit at all to the music, just the lead singer.

Eminem really can't sing. I love Haliey's Song, which is definitely worth a listen. He tries, but sucks at singing, as he tried and says he cannot sing with that one. I think he should have gone with rock, putting talented musicians behind him. I can't picture any other of style accepting his lyrics. I don't think he would ever make it to classic bands, no matter what style of music he chose, but could be much more substantial than what he is.

There are a ton of popular rock bands where the lead can present lyrics being unable to hit the notes. Repetition in music is boring after a few listens. Rap is a very simple beat, nothing more. Rock has more substance, but still is a bore to the listener using the same notes over and over without variation . At least rockers try a lot harder to be creative than any rapper, but many are still not quite up to par.

I actually like Eminem, only because of what he has to say. Many find his words objectionable to young people who buy his music. I see it differently. They grow in a culture I didn't. Divorce wasn't all that common. Living together was shameful. Most moms stayed at home. That's how I grew up.

The culture of our young people has changed dramatically. Today, adults don't necessarily want to marry. Divorce, single parenting another marriage with a step parent and step children, don't leave out live in relationships where adults do not want the legalities of marriage after being burned a bit hard are all very common today. The old taboos are a thing of the past. Today, you don't even have to know who the father of your child is. This is life for kids today. Eminem speaks with anger.

He isn't too thrilled with his mother and I assume he lived in a single parent household. I have seen her interviewed and think she probably is a piece of trash. I will be thrilled if my son makes it through auto mechanic school, just to make a living wage.

If my son made himself wealthy with music saying I am a pill popping whore, I would never sue him. I would be thrilled with his success in life. People that meet and know me would learn something different. My daughter blows a lid if I pour a drink because I am stressed out. Her father is an alcoholic, so I guess you can understand the objection to me to drinking a drop.

Knowing kids, especially kids that have no father to rely on, I understand his overreaction to his mother. What I don't understand is his own mother suing him and winning because of his portrayal of her. I should know. My kids have a father who doesn't bother with them either. Expectations run very high on the only parent they feel they can count on. They will and do harshly criticize the only parent they have, out of fear. I don't blame them or Eminem for his thoughts and portrayal of his mother.

I think she must be one selfish bitch wanting a piece of the pie, which she didn't earn her own son's respect enough not to portray his own mother as he did. Most son's would protect their mother, not attack. Don't count on that if you really weren't there for them. I doubt his mother was, but believe she did the best she could with the cards she was dealt.

She obviously isn't all too supportive of her own son or wouldn't have hired a lawyer to sue him. I would give my son all rights to call me whatever he wanted to make the kind of money Eminem does, very cheerfully. I have been there and supportive of both my children. I strongly believe if they had a ticket to fortune and fame, they would buy me a house and car so I could live ok.

I also refuse to believe that my son would slander me in public because he does love and have respect for me. Respect is always earned!! I doubt his mother ever did earn her son's respect and I do look down my nose at any mother that would sue her son over something like this. She should be happy for him. People that know you don't buy lies, but maybe they weren't, which is why she is so defensive. I believe she only won this lawsuit because Eminem is out there and not socially acceptable. Who can go back in time and prove what the truth really was? You can't!!

Anyway, social change is difficult on all of us, adults and kids alike. Kids understand and do not deny today's family problems. From experience, I have to say that the parents are hurt far more than their children. Parents have all the stress and responsibility. Kids are idealistic, not knowing harsh realities that adults face every day trying to make it in this world, which is hard.

The work force no longer pays us enough to allow either parent to stay at home. Divorce eventually becomes a reality for too many of us. As adults, we love out children and work hard to provide for them. We still wish for love and companionship, while kids reject a divorced parent dating, hating anyone, feeling this person is a threat to them. They do live in instability, which is not the fault of a parent. The economy drastically changed, forcing the traditional family to be a thing of the past.

I have two teen children and like kids. It is an exception that a teen of today have their natural parents together and find a way to make it work. They live with the reality of today, single parent homes where parents wish to find happiness with another, which older kids will not accept. Thankfully, children are very flexible, but not that they don't have the ability to evaluate. They do so with idealistic values of youth and don't know how wrong they are at times. They are wrong and unreasonable so many times, a parent doesn't know when they are right, but are many times as well as wrong with their evaluation.

I feel this is what Emenim is speaking out over, harsh realities about the feelings of today's children, and it is the truth. He has every right to be angry, but places blame where it doesn't belong at times, but I understand why he criticizes as he does.

I would never censor my children from hearing Enimem's words. They can and do relate to what he says and feel the exact same anger. I feel they should hear his message. His song Superman is a fantastic example for teens. Teen boys need to know manipulation by a pretty face when they see it. Teen girls need to respect themselves, if they ever wish for anyone else to respect them.

I will admit, this song is harsh and crude. I will also tell my teen kids every word of it is true. It is my job, as a parent, to prepare my children to enter the adult world and give them knowledge. I will give it to them in a way that they understand, such as a guy like Emenim. They already like this guy. I will explain what it is they don't understand.

He does have a few of substance. It's been a while since I listened, but would give any parent advice to let their kids listen to him with two songs I can think of off hand, Hailey's song and Superman.

Hailey's Song is about being a parent, which they better take seriously. You don't know how you can love another until you have your own blood to love more than yourself. Making this choice give up your life for theirs. You lose freedom of so many choices. You will walk through fire to give to a child you love dearly, making your own so difficult and complicated. Families should be planned. Giving life should never be taken casually.

I wish that I could think of the rest I find worth a listen and explanation to teens. The rest of his music, I find way funny. I do have a great sense of humor. White America is another one I love. Parents should listen to this one!

Ooops! This topic is about Marilyn.

Yeh marilyn is wikkid. excpeically him himself hes his own indavidulalist

That one cracks me up. I'm not religious and never really went to church in my life. I can see why religious people would find this offensive, but not being one myself, I don't.

Being completely ignorant of religion, I feel, gives me a complete lack of bias on the topic. I see so much hypocrisy with this issue. How many wars have started over religion? Why do people go to church on Sunday and act like complete jerks? The multiple claims of child molestation in the Catholic church is mind boggling. How about these complete frauds, like the Bakers, only out to make money?

I may be ignorant of religion, but I seriously doubt that any religion is trying to teach people anything but to live up to a good standard of humanity or at least give it a try. People don't. Some do. I think that is why Marilyn makes fun of this. It is a bit funny, if you think about it.