Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:17 pm

I was just reading a thread and it reminded me of something that happened many years ago.. Not sure, if I would do this again, in a way I would hope so. I thought it would be better to write it here, instead of on that thread.

I'm wondering, has anyone ever done something that required such a brave move, but was also a stupid move? If so, what was it.

I'm asking this because still to today, I'm not sure of my reaction of what happened.

Some years ago, I parked my car in an underground carpark, to do some food shopping. When I finished and as I entered the underground carpark, I heard what I thought was kids and saw what I thought was three kids chasing each other.

I can recall that I "thought" then that I heard a cry for help. I walked closer towards what I could see in the distance and noticed that actually, it was two guys trying to steal a purse from what appeared to be an older woman.

This is the bit I don't get, how our minds go into action without thinking, fortunately with a good result, which could have been worse.

I started moving faster towards this woman and the two men.. I could then see she crouched down, curled up in a ball holding her handbag and I yelled out at the guys.. They looked at me and turned and got into their car. But, the next thing is what shocked me.

I went up to this woman and told her "it's ok".. She was sobbing.. I put my arm on her and told her again "it's ok".. Right then, this car came straight up to me. I turned around and it was a foot away, so for what ever reason, I put my foot on the front of it and just literally stared at the driver. I felt like it was for ever and I didn't budge. The staring match just went on..... Eventually, I think he was shocked as well, he simply reversed and drove out.

I didn't even get the number plate, it was like I think I was shocked myself at what I did.

Anyways, the next suprise was even harder to imagine. As, this older woman, started to get up and I again told her it was alright.. She looked at me straight in the eyes. It was a woman that I had worked with as a Volunteer, for Service to Youth, raising money for Street Kids. I knew her really well.

She later sent me a card, which she wrote out how she felt and heart felt thanks.

I will never forget that as long as I live but I still to today, wonder about my actions.. Whether that was a brave thing or a stupid thing for me to do. In reality we know to just let them take the handbag but for what ever reason, she digressed through fear I imagine and refused. I will never forget her scream for help either.

I wonder if that, is what makes us make moves that maybe we otherwise wouldn't do.. Hearing someone call out for help, perhaps we don't think and just act.

I will add, that at 18, some (dick) pushed me out of an exit door after simply walking out of a toilet, in a night club. Punched me in the face and tried to push me into his car. I held on to that door for my life, he was 6ft 3.. And, I managed to get away. I think from that day on-wards I held very little fear.. It's a longer story and I only mentioned it, wondering if that is the reason why I had no fear that day.

I'm wondering if anyone else here has just "acted" before thinking and doing something that could turn out dangerous. Not necessarily in regards to anything in particular, simply a dangerous situation that they acted on without thinking first.

 
Rockhead
 
  4  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 06:55 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
there is a very fine line between the two.

sometimes divided by success...
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 Sep, 2012 07:19 pm
@Rockhead,
I have to wonder why that woman found it so important to risk her safety over a handbag, in which everything can be replaced.

Don't know if the OP was brave, but she was stupid.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:57 am
@Rockhead,
In reflection that makes perfect sense.

Had they had run us both over, I would have to have been stupid doing what I did, the fact they didn't it was a success.

0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 03:05 am
@chai2,
Chai, she was in her 60's at the time this occured, me, I think 30's early. I think it was the fear of two guys chasing a woman, not knowing ( based on her card to me) what else may have happened to her, punched, stabbed etc that made her do that.

I think the reason really this thread even appeared was due to Dutchy mentioning this, situation re BBC.. Which reminded me of the time I was attacked and then the time I was there for someone, coupled with the thread I read.

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2012/s3597056.htm

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/breaking-news-blog/backpacker-tells-of-terrifying-sexual-assault/20120801-23eyu.html

On reading up on more, I noticed someone had shared another link "now removed" due to legalities. Whereby the said murderer, had another charge on drinking and assulting..

The video footage of him, and obviously finger prints got him caught.

The fact there is such a likeness to the photo sketch of the woman who was raped but not murdered as she got away, but thought that she would be, is errie, such likeness. A serial rapist, whom perhaps caught on who this woman was " I work for BBC", reporter etc maybe he therefore murdered her in fear or maybe he's not just a serial rapist, but a serial murder.

Just for the record, the guy that got me when I was 18, as I duly told Dutchy without concern, shirt happens in life, was a pimp... I didn't know that, he might have been the same type of person, rape, murder.

Gawd, drugged and working for a brothel and then sent to Manilla which was the thing in those days, I am also lucky.

I'm cool at discussing any of this, like I said, I have little fear.

I will be watching this one and see if I am right, that he was a serial rapist and I think committed his first murder.

Where is Firefly and Hawk... lols... I know this is Australian but I think it got to me and bought back some memories, good and bad.

msolga
 
  3  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 03:15 am
@chai2,
Quote:
I have to wonder why that woman found it so important to risk her safety over a handbag, in which everything can be replaced.

I don't see it as being just about a handbag.
I see it more as an instinctive response to bullying, the strong taking advantage of a (far) weaker target.

Quote:
Don't know if the OP was brave, but she was stupid.

I don't know about that, either.
As I said, I saw it as an instinctive response, more of a gut reaction. Not one where the pros & cons were carefully weighed up.
I can certainly understand that instinctive urge to intervene to protect the weak or helpless.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 04:15 am
@FOUND SOUL,
FOUND SOUL wrote:
I was just reading a thread and it reminded me of something that happened many years ago.. Not sure, if I would do this again, in a way I would hope so. I thought it would be better to write it here, instead of on that thread.

I'm wondering, has anyone ever done something that required such a brave move, but was also a stupid move? If so, what was it.

I'm asking this because still to today, I'm not sure of my reaction of what happened.

Some years ago, I parked my car in an underground carpark, to do some food shopping. When I finished and as I entered the underground carpark, I heard what I thought was kids and saw what I thought was three kids chasing each other.

I can recall that I "thought" then that I heard a cry for help. I walked closer towards what I could see in the distance and noticed that actually, it was two guys trying to steal a purse from what appeared to be an older woman.

This is the bit I don't get, how our minds go into action without thinking, fortunately with a good result, which could have been worse.

I started moving faster towards this woman and the two men.. I could then see she crouched down, curled up in a ball holding her handbag and I yelled out at the guys.. They looked at me and turned and got into their car. But, the next thing is what shocked me.

I went up to this woman and told her "it's ok".. She was sobbing.. I put my arm on her and told her again "it's ok".. Right then, this car came straight up to me. I turned around and it was a foot away, so for what ever reason, I put my foot on the front of it and just literally stared at the driver. I felt like it was for ever and I didn't budge. The staring match just went on..... Eventually, I think he was shocked as well, he simply reversed and drove out.

I didn't even get the number plate, it was like I think I was shocked myself at what I did.

Anyways, the next suprise was even harder to imagine. As, this older woman, started to get up and I again told her it was alright.. She looked at me straight in the eyes. It was a woman that I had worked with as a Volunteer, for Service to Youth, raising money for Street Kids. I knew her really well.

She later sent me a card, which she wrote out how she felt and heart felt thanks.

I will never forget that as long as I live but I still to today, wonder about my actions.. Whether that was a brave thing or a stupid thing for me to do. In reality we know to just let them take the handbag but for what ever reason, she digressed through fear I imagine and refused. I will never forget her scream for help either.

I wonder if that, is what makes us make moves that maybe we otherwise wouldn't do.. Hearing someone call out for help, perhaps we don't think and just act.

I will add, that at 18, some (dick) pushed me out of an exit door after simply walking out of a toilet, in a night club. Punched me in the face and tried to push me into his car. I held on to that door for my life, he was 6ft 3.. And, I managed to get away. I think from that day on-wards I held very little fear.. It's a longer story and I only mentioned it, wondering if that is the reason why I had no fear that day.

I'm wondering if anyone else here has just "acted" before thinking and doing something that could turn out dangerous. Not necessarily in regards to anything in particular, simply a dangerous situation that they acted on without thinking first.
Is there a reason that a stupid response
cannot be brave??


In another century, I was driving late one summer nite, alone on the road
except for an old-looking car immediately behind me for a while.
We were in the rightmost lane. I was driving very slowly, looking
for something diagonally forward and to my right.

I hear a gunshot and saw a bullethole open up in my driver's door window.
I saw that car driving abreast of mine, at that time.
Reflexively, I drew out my own gun, a brightly reflective
stainless steel mirror .44 caliber revolver. Before I had time to line up a shot,
I heard a scream from that other car and it abruptly departed hence.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 05:32 am
@FOUND SOUL,
I would say more Honorable and Risky than either Brave or Stupid.

Bravery is when you overcome a fear to take action, but it sounds like you weren't afraid (probably adrenaline rush), so not brave. And stupid is when there is a much better solution readily available, and you either don't see it or don't choose it. But there wasn't a better option, so not stupid.

Congratulations, your instinctive reaction was to behave in an honorable and altruistic manner.
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 07:44 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Wow - good for you - and yes it was both a brave and dumb thing - but I am glad for both of you it ended well.

I did a really dumb thing before (well many dumb things) but your story reminded me of when I acted before thinking - if I thought my dog would have been killed.

Any way - I was a young teen and lived on a small street. Although many people would come speeding down it. My dog had gotten out loose and I was nearby - he ran out in the street. A car was coming down the street and he had to have seen the dog and had plenty of time to stop (as I was calling my dog), but he didn't slow down, if anything it seemed he sped up.

I ran out right in front of my dog, put my hand up and yelled "Stop". The bonehead slammed on the brakes and stopped right in front of us. He started swearing his head off. But it was obvious he was trying to actually run my dog down.

Yeah it was dumb.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 07:45 am
@chai2,
I think some times in the heat of the moment people aren't thinking just reacting.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 07:46 am
@Linkat,
True, that's why we must learn to think, not just react.
0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 08:19 am
@msolga,
msolga wrote:

Quote:
I have to wonder why that woman found it so important to risk her safety over a handbag, in which everything can be replaced.

I don't see it as being just about a handbag.
I see it more as an instinctive response to bullying, the strong taking advantage of a (far) weaker target.


Why did the woman automatically fall into becoming the weaker person, the target?

She was being pursued by men in a parking garage. An intelligent guess would be she had parked in an area where there were no other people around.....her first mistake.
I enter parking garages regularly, and make sure I ultimatley park where there are other people walking around. When going back to my car, I look all around me, and if I saw someone/2 men approaching would make direct eye contact with them to make sure they knew I knew they were there.

I'm not going to say for a second the woman didn't do any of these precautions, but it sure doesn't sound like it if she was running, cowering, clutching some unimportant piece of leather or cloth. She could have dropped the bag, and kept running, and the chances of her continuing to be chased would have dropped hugely.

People do have more control than they give themselves credit for whether they lose their minds or not.
Instead, many of us walk blindly through our day, not giving an instants thought to what is around the corner, or what's right in front of their eyes for that matter.

I choose not to live like a deer caught in the headlights of a car. But, that's just me.

******

As far as the man putting his foot in front of the car.....

I was leaving the pool last month, and overheard a man talking to his small son, who he was obviously trying to teach some water skills, getting closer to swimming. The son was obviously hesitant about whatever they were doing.

This little boy was too young to understand the meaning of something I heard the father say to him...but the father was saying it to him anyway, and I'm sure for not the first, or last time.

What he said was "Bravery is courage tempered by wisdom"

Personally, I don't think it was wise to confront a moving car with your foot. I have plans for my feet for the next few decades, and doubt I would look back at a shattered, painful maybe useless foot, that's keeping me from walking, running etc the way I want to, and think "I don't regret this, because I lost function of my foot defending a cowering woman clutching a handbag from a one and a half ton moving car"

He wasn't showing bravery, rather he was exhibiting bravado.

0 Replies
 
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 08:30 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

I would say more Honorable and Risky than either Brave or Stupid.

Bravery is when you overcome a fear to take action, but it sounds like you weren't afraid (probably adrenaline rush), so not brave. And stupid is when there is a much better solution readily available, and you either don't see it or don't choose it. But there wasn't a better option, so not stupid.

Congratulations, your instinctive reaction was to behave in an honorable and altruistic manner.


There was a better solution.

take out your cell phone, saying loudly "I'm dialing 911 and giving them your license plate number and your description."

stare at the driver all you want, but don't put your foot in front of the car while you quickly describe them, and the license plate number to the operator who answers the phone. If they get out to stop you, run, but hold onto and talk on the phone while running. PS, try to run in the direction of other people, or where other people will more likely be found.

I believe what ultimately made these men reconsider and leave was not the foot in front of the car, but the eye contact. The eye contact saying "I see you. I can describe you. I'm not cowering, I'm in charge of myself"

Short of deciding to kill both of them at that moment, over a handbag, the men knew they needed to cut their losses and leave.

PS.....you probably wouldn't get cell phone reception in a parking garage.....but those 2 men are not going to know that for sure.....you pretend you're telling an operator as you stand, or run. They think you're talking to someone, that's what matters. If you don't have a cell phone, pull out your wallet and pretend it's one....all the men see, in THEIR now increasingly panic that you're doing something, and not cowering, is that you're pulling out what they would probably see as a phone.

Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 08:41 am
But often times in such situations - you are reacting instinctively. Instinct takes over when a quick decision needs to be made. Its that flight or fight instinct. Unless you have the luxury of time to think this through - most people react instinctively. That is why there isn't real fear - you ain't thinking about it - you are simply reacting.

I wonder if there is a way of teaching your self to think over reacting.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 09:29 am
@Linkat,
Linkat wrote:


I wonder if there is a way of teaching your self to think over reacting.


Yes, there is.

You keep your eyes open, think ahead, have plans.

Would it work all the time? Of course not. But it would certainly work more often than not doing so.

I don't think it's always about having the luxury of time to "think things through" In a fight or flight response, your mind become hyperaware. Be aware that you are aware, and use it.
The other person is expecting you to freak out and not think.....prove him wrong.

Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 10:02 am
@chai2,
Maybe with age, wisdom and experience - basically being through things before.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 01:07 pm
@Linkat,
yeah, maybe.

I've always been the type though, to get real still and watchful when in a dicey situation, even as a kid.

I was thinking about this while driving around a while ago.

Thinking about all the things people are thinking whilst going about their business, walking to their car, waiting for someone, etc etc.

I can imagine someone saying "well, I was thinking about something else then." Knowing my own mind, when I'm walking, let's say to my car, my thoughts are things like "I gotta color my hair Barbara has some nerve I like fried chicken that was funny I need to file this nail it keeps catching do I have my handbag oh yeah it's right here on my arm Jim's coming over next week....."

In other words, I'm just like everyone else.
So with all these thoughts going through your head, you just add in "look around to make sure there's no one one coming up to you don't park there it's too isolated"

We all have the option to incorporate these non paranoid, realistic thoughts into the combination of minutiae and more important thoughts we have all day.

I also realized for sure that foot in front of the car had nothing to do with the people driving off. It was the direct eye contact.

People who are going to mug you want easy targets. Show them you're not easy, but if they continue give them what they want, keep your eyes open to watch for an escape.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 01:21 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:
There was a better solution.

take out your cell phone, saying loudly "I'm dialing 911 and giving them your license plate number and your description."


that works now. Probably not at the time of the incident that was described.

Remember car phones? they didn't work once you took them out of the car since they were hooked up to the car battery. Not really that long ago. I still had one of those when I first travelled to visit Setanta.
chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:03 pm
@ehBeth,
You're right....I went back and looked and saw this was something that happened years ago.

however, worth a try.

I'm banking on people that are willing to mug you in a garage are not the sharpest knives in the drawer, and wouldn't know that.

****, I'd try anything.

One of the best things I've read about keep your head about you was this...
This girl was pumping gas, and saw a guy approaching her in what she saw as a menacing way. She said to him "Hi! I'm Dan's (or some common name, banking he knows someone with that name) sister, remember me? How are you!"

He veered off.

Even if he didn't know someone named Dan, he'd be thinking "do I know a Dan? This is his sister....I must know Dan, she knows me"

Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:07 pm
@chai2,
it's all about perspective.

somebody silly enough to actually be threatening me while I'm pumping gas would see me reach in my pocket for a lighter, and then we'd talk about the weather while I toyed with it.

victims usually act like victims...
 

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