chai2
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:09 pm
@Rockhead,
****, this makes me want to carry a lighter rocky.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 02:10 pm
@chai2,
always be prepared.

it's the scout's motto...
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Fri 28 Sep, 2012 04:19 pm
@FOUND SOUL,
rosborne
Quote:

Bravery is when you overcome a fear to take action, but it sounds like you weren't afraid (probably adrenaline rush), so not brave. And stupid is when there is a much better solution readily available, and you either don't see it or don't choose it. But there wasn't a better option, so not stupid.


Thank you. Things like this you vividly remember. No I wasn't afraid at all, rather I remember my mind was thinking "how dare you". And, I remember the stare I gave him was fierce, penetrating, there certainly was no fear. I am not sure if it was an adrenaline rush, maybe at the beginning but not when I was at the car. I recall being extremely calm.. Until, after. Then I shirt myself. Smile


Linkat

Quote:
I ran out right in front of my dog, put my hand up and yelled "Stop". The bonehead slammed on the brakes and stopped right in front of us. He started swearing his head off. But it was obvious he was trying to actually run my dog down.
Linkat, I see that to be so simular. Protection? An immediate instinct maybe?

Chai
Quote:

I'm not going to say for a second the woman didn't do any of these precautions, but it sure doesn't sound like it if she was running, cowering, clutching some unimportant piece of leather or cloth. She could have dropped the bag, and kept running, and the chances of her continuing to be chased would have dropped hugely.

People do have more control than they give themselves credit for whether they lose their minds or not.



Chai, let's remember she was an "older woman".. Maybe, to her, her worldly posessions were in that bag, or fear crept in after all, she ran in circles, she didn't try to run away, I'd say it was pure fear. Not everyone can think ahead. Our brains take 30 seconds to react our thoughts apparently, I may be out on the timing but, our thoughts definately take time for our body to react.

An older woman running in circles, crying out for help and then reduced to crouching does not sound like a woman who can think ahead, or change her thought patterns mid stream, rather fear has set in so deep that she can't swim past the water. Your mind set is obviously vastly different, I'd say mine is too, given I was able to escape possible rape and death at 18 by not letting fear set in and finding an escape.. We are not all alike.

Quote:
As far as the man putting his foot in front of the car.....


Woman Chai.. Which makes it worse doesn't it.. A woman putting her foot on a car, staring at two guys, specifically the driver.. That is why they backed off, not just the staring but that a woman was prepared to confront them.

Quote:
What he said was "Bravery is courage tempered by wisdom"


So sure I was stupid, but I had courage not yet the wisdom.

Quote:
Personally, I don't think it was wise to confront a moving car with your foot
.

The car was stationary.. It came straight up to us. I turned around after trying to comfort this woman who at the time, I didn't realise that I knew, she was sobbing hard. I heard the car. I turned around and it had stopped not far from us. Already, stopped. I'd say these kids were thinking I would duck or try to drag her or something.. That one would get out and take both our bags.. being confronted like that, their getaway now at arms reach. I think my choice was a statement.. One that said "protection" of both of us. I think if I had dragged her, or shown fear, that's what would have occured. One would have gotten out of the car. Funnily enough, I was mad, like wt? Just try it.. So, I don't think as I have stated it was just the stare, it was a woman saying 'NO'...and not showing fear.


Quote:
I believe what ultimately made these men reconsider and leave was not the foot in front of the car, but the eye contact. The eye contact saying "I see you. I can describe you. I'm not cowering, I'm in charge of myself"


I agree totally on the last statement.

Linkat
Quote:
But often times in such situations - you are reacting instinctively. Instinct takes over when a quick decision needs to be made. Its that flight or fight instinct. Unless you have the luxury of time to think this through - most people react instinctively. That is why there isn't real fear - you ain't thinking about it - you are simply reacting.


I think the instinct Linkat was at, helping the woman. I do remember first thinking, given there were two of them and looking around the carpark to see if there was anyone else to call out to. There wasn't.. So I made my decision. I do also remember that they didn't have any knives just using their hands to try to grab the bag. My honest thoughts were, worse scenario, I may get struck but my instinct was to help the woman.

Quote:
You keep your eyes open, think ahead, have plans.


I like the cigarette lighter idea that's pretty scary, movie stuff Rock, like we both go down Smile I also like the idea of forward thinking.. But sometimes there are no plans.. Sometimes if you have that instinct then you have to draw on all probables right there and then, to work out how to get out of a situation, and sometimes you are forced into a situation that you would never, ever have thought would have occured. Such as walking out of a toilet and being pushed out an exit door by a 6ft 3 guy..

ehBeth
Quote:
Remember car phones? they didn't work once you took them out of the car since they were hooked up to the car battery. Not really that long ago. I still had one of those when I first travelled to visit Setanta.


I think ehBeth, we had those awkward, huge, heavy mobile phones and I am pretty sure I charged it from the car. You're right.. And my purse would not have been in a shape of a phone either..


Chai
Quote:
One of the best things I've read about keep your head about you was this...
This girl was pumping gas, and saw a guy approaching her in what she saw as a menacing way. She said to him "Hi! I'm Dan's (or some common name, banking he knows someone with that name) sister, remember me? How are you!"


All women should learn that one for any situation, ...

rockhead
Quote:
victims usually act like victims...


Exactly.. Unfortunately, even the woman murdered (links) in this thread, was an ace at taekwondo, yet she was still raped and murdered.

msolga

Quote:
I can certainly understand that instinctive urge to intervene to protect the weak or helpless.


Me too.. I wouldn't think twice if there was no other solution.

David
Quote:
I hear a gunshot and saw a bullethole open up in my driver's door window.
I saw that car driving abreast of mine, at that time.
Reflexively, I drew out my own gun, a brightly reflective
stainless steel mirror .44 caliber revolver. Before I had time to line up a shot,
I heard a scream from that other car and it abruptly departed hence


Yessum, your gun has always been your best friend David Smile


http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/troubled-past-of-murder-accused-adrian-ernest-bayley/story-e6frg6nf-1226483787739



Quote:
The Weekend Australian has learned that Ms Meagher's mobile telephone, which had been switched off since shortly after she disappeared on Saturday morning, played a crucial role in the police investigation.

Her provider, Vodafone, helped track the location of her phone as well as providing call records which assisted detectives in making their arrest.

Victoria Police has privately thanked Vodafone for its assistance, but declined to comment on the phone's importance to the investigation.


Talking about mobile phones in situations. I will be following this story, did he turn it off, did she try to call someone, after all the link to the phone played a big part in how he was caught.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  3  
Reply Mon 1 Oct, 2012 11:38 pm
Putting oneself in danger can easily (and rationally) be described as "stupid."

When one does so to benefit someone else, it is (rationally) seen as bravery.

This is almost a definition of bravery: Doing something stupid for a good reason.

If there was no risk involved, there would be no bravery.

If the benefit was only for youself, the bravery would be suspect.

Thankfully some people react without a whole lot of thought to risk when they see an innocent in danger through chance or injustice.

The smart thing is to move along.

How many Zebras stick their noses in the middle of a lion's killing of one of their fellows?



hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 12:21 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Quote:
Where is Firefly and Hawk... lols

I am right here....

So that is why you are such a freak, you know from experience that women can beat off men, that woman dont have to be victims in need of the states "protection", and you dont fear men.

That is cool. I dont meet many like you.

re the original thought...I dont care whether it was brave or stupid...what matters to me is following your calling/imperative/instincts. A a Zenist I do it all the time, there is a time for thinking and a time for action, the wise do not get the two confused. Doing what you need to do does not always turn out well, but if you make a habit of it living with yourself is a breeze.

As you might have gathered before now I dont believe in repression, nor in suppression of others unless it is absolutely necessarily. Firefly on the other hand is a tireless advocate for the police state, and for "improvement" programs for the human race, which to all appearances she hates.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 02:53 am
@hawkeye10,
You found it huh, dodododododo... Smile

Gawd I am a freak? But yes, you make sense, in your first paragraph.. Also, I was a kid, all of IDK 17 and had been drinking ( please see the links I put on here as well as this also stemmed from the rape and murder of Jill) which I am addicted to reading now. To add to that bit ... This guy, the rapist/murderer, raped now this could get interesting with FF, he went to jaol and was out in just over 2 years for rape, being a good boy. He, stated after release he just played along, told them what the wanted to hear. Out in 2002, as a result and raped 6 prostitutes, back in he went for 8 years? ..... So between 2010 and now... He's raped 16, killed one...

She was from BBC, TV .. I am betting that he checked her handbag, saw that, paniced, called from her phone as that is crutial evidence in how they caught him and killed her. Why let him out? Sheez. Law stuffed up twice.

Anyway I know this thread will turn that way because this is of interest to me...and the reason why it bought back these memories, triggered by reading a thread here.

A guy, stalking a girl, walking from a bar along the street, waiting for her, then getting her and I am sure, lifting her up off the ground, punching her just like me, and the rest is History.....

Quote:
What matters to me is following your calling/imperative/instincts. A a Zenist I do it all the time,


Hawk, this is one thing you and I agree with whole heartedly.. that and being a risk taker.
0 Replies
 
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 02:56 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
I never thought of it like that Finn. To benefit someone else for a good reason knowing the risks.

I wonder if people that don't hold fear, will just "react" or if they are a "protective person like Linkat" will just react.. No fear, risk is taken.

This is interesting in as much as instinct is a woman's better atribute than a male, so would a woman take more risks than a male, use her instinct more than a male?

Dunno, but interesting.

I didn't know that about Zebras, learn something new every day Smile

Thank you . for your thoughts.



FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 03:26 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Also, I was a kid, all of IDK 17 and had been drinking
Sorry, that being I believe the part you are referring to, from experience when I fought off the 6ft so guy from pushing me in the car.
0 Replies
 
Linkat
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 07:44 am
@FOUND SOUL,
I do think there is a protective instinct that some people have maybe over another.

Just very recently, my niece got hit by a car after being dropped off her bus from school. She is just a few years younger than my 13 year old. (she is home recovering now - fortunately her physical injuries will all heal). Any way my 13 year old says to me after visiting her, if I were there, I would have pushed her out of the way and been hit myself.

I do think that sometimes people have a protective instinct over those that they view being younger, weaker or in need of protection.
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Oct, 2012 07:50 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
This is almost a definition of bravery: Doing something stupid for a good reason.

That's almost a rational statement.
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Oct, 2012 04:30 pm
@Linkat,
I think some people's hearts especially childrens, are so pure that they in-deed would do anything to save someone they love.. I'm betting your daughter would do that for a complete stranger if she saw someone about to be hit, with the intent of trying to get out of the way herself, but I think she would do it..

Scary huh...
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Oct, 2012 06:39 am
@FOUND SOUL,
It is scary. I didn't know what to say when she said what she did. No, don't do it - don't endanger yourself - which is what a protective mom would want. But on the other hand, I recognized myself in her - I could picture me saying that when I was her age. I didn't say anything. (and crossed my fingers that it would never come to that)
FOUND SOUL
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Oct, 2012 02:43 am
@Linkat,
I kinda know how you feel, as I read that I could see that from a Mother's point of view, proud but scared.

I guess, we are who we are and what we are tought, if we agree stays with us...

I personally think it's a beautiful thing and I'll cross my fingers if she ever did that, to also be wise, (perhaps you can guide there? ) on how to pull someone across instead of jumping in front .... So they are both safe.

IDK

hugs.
Linkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Oct, 2012 06:21 am
@FOUND SOUL,
Thank you - your comments are very sweet and kind.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Oct, 2012 05:39 pm
@DrewDad,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
This is almost a definition of bravery: Doing something stupid for a good reason.
DrewDad wrote:
That's almost a rational statement.
Do u deny that a stupid man can be brave ?
0 Replies
 
 

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