ehBeth
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 11:25 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

In my opinion Cornwell's a pretty good and competent writer.


Which was pretty much Set's comment.

Many authors within the romance genre are good and competent writers. Historical fiction is just the men's variant.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 11:29 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

Lustig Andrei wrote:

In my opinion Cornwell's a pretty good and competent writer.


Which was pretty much Set's comment.
Many authors within the romance genre are good and competent writers. Historical fiction is just the men's variant.


Sure. I was just agreeing with Set. (We often think alike.)
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 11:30 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
I was just agreeing with Set.



shhhh



don't tell anyone
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 01:06 pm
@msolga,
That was an interesting article, msolga.

This really tied in with what we were saying about book covers:

Quote:
People who like to trace all new trends back to new technology have offered this explanation – that women who wouldn't be seen dead reading smut on the tube could read it on their Kindle, and this launched a whole world of sales.


I think that's probably really true.

And this....

Quote:
As history is written by the victors, so S&M is written by the Ss, and the problem with sadists is that they exaggerate. They're not looking at it from the masochist's point of view – it's in their job description not to. If the Marquis de Sade thinks any garden– variety submissive is going to get a kick out of having their back broken on a cartwheel, he's dreaming. Conversely, two opposite predilections, across a very broad scope, might easily collide in a fantasy written from the perspective of the masochist or naïf. So that's the popularity of volume one.


In murder fiction you are much more apt to hear things from the killer's perspective, either first hand or from the detective's conversation (He's a person who likes blahblahblah and thinks thisandthat).
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  2  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 01:39 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
I think this book might be a game changer for the mega-million dollar romance novel sector.

Why? There are plenty of similar books, they're deliberately aimed at the S&M crowd rather than the HEA crowd. While there is still an element of romance thrown in the real target is people (women) who like it rough. This one just caught on for some reason. I got to page 62 (about the same place I lost interest in Twilight) and the writing style reminded me more of Sydney Sheldon or Jacqueline Susan than what is categorized as Romance today. There are parodies galore being given away for Kindles.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 01:49 pm
@Green Witch,
What's HEA?
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 02:19 pm
@Green Witch,
By putting romance novels on the mainstream map.

And I don't think it's about S&M. I don't think my 70 year old neighbor will be out searching for S&M books and I know I won't (I won't be searching out romance novels either). There isn't really much S&M in the books.

osso - HEA = happily ever after.
Setanta
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 02:31 pm
Just because it irritates the hell out of me . . .

History is not written by the victors!

If that were true, we'd never know what the losing side thought, fought and suffered, and we'd have no point of comparison.
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 02:49 pm
@boomerang,
I think Romance is already pretty mainstream, women (and maybe men) just don't admit to reading it. I think it has been a profitable staple in the publishing industry since the early 80's and I'm doubt the genre will get any more respect because of FSoG. And yeah, S&M was too harsh a term, but the woman really gives into the man in away that makes her very unequal and dominated. The one sex scene I read seemed more silly than sexy. True there are a lot of multi-orgasmic virgins in Romance, but Romance of the last decade usually gives the woman more power, even if it's still a Cinderella story. I think in part women read it because of that fantasy, as much as the arrival of a great guy into their lives. There is going to be a documentary on PBS POV on the topic. Here's the trailer and
the title says it all:
http://www.pbs.org/pov/guiltypleasures/
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 02:52 pm
@Green Witch,
Romance literature has been a profitable staple for publishers long before the 1980s. Emily Loring -- to name just one -- was a best-seller back in the early '60s.
Green Witch
 
  2  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 03:13 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Agree to a degree. I have a relative who worked in publishing for decades, including a long stint at Avon (a major publisher of Romance). She says you could argue it all started with Jane Austin (I had an English teacher who would say the same), but she believes what really put the Romance genre/formula "on the map" was the publication of Flame & The Flower by Kathleen Woodwiss (sp?) in the 1970s. Publishers went crazy trying to duplicate the success of that book that had almost no marketing budget and sold over a million copies with just word of mouth. It also kept on selling like a classic instead of just a popular pulp fiction. She remembers as a young editor her job was to sort through hundreds of letters from women asking for more books like F&tF - yet people tended not to sign their full name or give an address. The stigma of being embarrassed to want such a book had begun.
contrex
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 05:10 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:
it all started with Jane Austin


Didn't she found an automobile company, as did William Morris? Later to become British Leyland?

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/04/CC-20-054-800.jpg

Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 05:59 pm
@contrex,
No, no, contrex, Jane Austin was the mother of Stephen Austin, the man who started the Anglo settlement of Texas when it was still part of Mexico.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 06:03 pm
@Green Witch,
Green Witch wrote:

I think Romance is already pretty mainstream, women (and maybe men) just don't admit to reading it.


I'm not convinced of that. I see probably 20 or 30 romance novels being read as I transit to and from work each day. There may be even more on Kindles and Kobos, but they are out there - in plain sight.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  0  
Sat 7 Jul, 2012 06:27 pm
I remember when Erica Jong's "Fear of Flying" came out - oh the hype and it was nothing special. I am not reading "Fifty Shades of Grey" .....if you really want to get into it, then read Charlotte Roche's "Wetlands"....not for the faint!
contrex
 
  3  
Sun 8 Jul, 2012 01:31 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

No, no, contrex, Jane Austin was the mother of Stephen Austin, the man who started the Anglo settlement of Texas when it was still part of Mexico.


Thank you. I was getting confused because of Ford Madox Ford, the car maker.
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jul, 2012 01:43 am
In Britain, there is a well known publisher of romances called Mills And Boon, who have been going for decades. As these covers show, they have adapted to changing tastes.

1924

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2008/11/27/1227791447998/Gallery-Mills-and-Boon-Mi-009.jpg

1966

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45195000/jpg/_45195908_0b9520b1-a266-4022-84ee-12ebfc69366d.jpg

2008

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45198000/jpg/_45198303_ac0dfc82-1e15-4767-90d1-c94f3f6a0559.jpg
0 Replies
 
contrex
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jul, 2012 02:15 am
I don't think the 1924 cover is hinting at the Jazz Age equivalent of Linford's Lunchbox, but I could be wrong... cover artists generally know what they are doing.
0 Replies
 
Crazielady420
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jul, 2012 01:34 pm
@CalamityJane,
Is Charlotte Roche's "Wetlands" similiar to the concept of Fifty Shades of Grey (i.e. great sex, kinky, etc.)?
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Sun 8 Jul, 2012 02:02 pm
@Crazielady420,
I don't know, but here is a synapsis

Quote:
Helen Memel is an outspoken eighteen-year-old, whose childlike stubbornness is offset by a precocious sexual confidence. She begins her story from a hospital bed, where she’s slowly recovering from an operation and lamenting her parents’ divorce. To distract herself, Helen ruminates on her past sexual adventures in increasingly uncomfortable detail, taking the reader on a sensational journey through Helen’s body and mind. Punky alienated teenager, young woman reclaiming her body from the tyranny of repressive hygiene (women mustn’t smell, excrete, desire), bratty smartass, vulnerable, lonely daughter, shock merchant, and pleasure seeker—Helen is all of these things and more, and her frequent attempts to assert her maturity ultimately prove just how fragile, confused, and young she truly is.
As Helen constantly blurs the line between celebration, provocation, and dysfunction in her relationship with her body, Roche exposes the double bind of female sexuality, delivering a compulsively readable and fearlessly intimate manifesto on sex, hygiene, and the repercussions of family trauma.
 

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