Periods Meeting Quotes

But what you're missing, Frank, big time, in your zeal to cast yourself as some moderate on language, is that this middle ground does not include the very "rules" [actually the one you tried to correct Joe England on] that plant you squarely in the realm of the extreme.

I don't think you do. The period would be incorrect; the comma is correct...and I think a colon would also work, although the comma is preferred.

Your first clause gives pause. The word "their" is probably incorrect...and the "they" in the second clause also seems incorrect.

You don't like being categorized as being in one of the utter insane groups and yet what is more insane, Frank, than advancing rules that are terrible descriptions of the English language.

Let me repeat what your "new found friend" says of the very rule that led to this long discussion:

"Many prescriptive rules originated for screwball reasons, impede clear and graceful prose, and have been flouted by English’s greatest writers for centuries."

This [regarding 'everyone/their'] was all explained to you right from the get go, but you went off on tangent after tangent. One has to wonder why, Frank. It doesn't at all seem to reflect the level of honesty you like to portray. It certainly doesn't square with your signature line.

Prescriptions that don't accurately describe language are worthless to all thinking linguists, grammarians and language experts, Frank, including Steven Pinker.

What you are saying with this argument is that students shouldn't think; that they should be automatons that simply memorize vacuous rules. That's what has gotten y'all into all this trouble. The crap that is taught in US schools [yes, others too] has made US students as grammatically incompetent as their main mentors.

Obviously not worthless to everyone, JTT. Look at all the mileage you have gotten from this prescription that does not, in your opinion, accurately describe language.

But if there is a test...and if you want to score as high as possible on the test...and if the teacher thinks the sky is mostly green and teaches that it is...I think a student should write "mostly green" in answer to a question from that teacher about the color of the sky.

That's prescriptivism Dave.

That huge (!) correction that I made in my first post amounted to damn near nothing. I gave an opinion on a question asked. Here it is in its entirety:


[]Your first clause gives pause. The word "their" is probably incorrect...and the "they" in the second clause also seems incorrect.[/i]


As for the first clause...it does give pause TO ME. But rather than be a doofus, I was circumspect, using "probably" and "seems."

Sorry you see something as innocuous as that as being "squarely in the realm of the extreme," but here in A2K, one gotsta put up with all sorts of opinions--and you are certainly entitled to yours. If you want to see that comment of mine as a lie and as "spreading falsehoods"...that is your prerogative.

We are, as I mentioned before, talking about a comma

Try to calm down.

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@Frank Apisa,
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We are, as I mentioned before, talking about a comma

No, Frank, we have never been talking about a comma. Punctuation was never at issue.

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Try to calm down.

When you come back, try to be rational.

You know what Mark Twain said about golf, don't you?

Golf is a fine walk spoiled.

Watching golf is just more stuffed pablum.

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Obviously not worthless to everyone, JTT. Look at all the mileage you have gotten from this prescription that does not, in your opinion, accurately describe language.

Inane drivel, Frank. More in a long list of inane drivel. You have been all over the map but you have not once addressed the actual issue. You ignore, completely, any information that points up, clearly, just how silly this 'rule' is, how it was a concocted rule.

Now, see below, you come up with a further inanity.

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But if there is a test...and if you want to score as high as possible on the test...and if the teacher thinks the sky is mostly green and teaches that it is...I think a student should write "mostly green" in answer to a question from that teacher about the color of the sky.

Evidently, that's how you and a lot of other Americans have spent their lives, Frank - pablum swallowers. Education is meant to challenge, encouraging students to think. That you can advance this nonsense is really telling.

Given your "education" you find it impossible to address the actual issue. You've been trained, and trained well to do song and dance routines instead of addressing the issue.

It's not at all surprising that "it does give pause TO ME". You have to consider your background, the "instruction" you have been subjected to over your lifetime.

It's hardly circumspect of one to advance a falsehood that you knew to be a falsehood.

It's hardly a balanced approach to ignore all the facts which illustrate that this rule is bogus.

You were given the same information when you tried to correct H2oman and still you took the extreme approach with Joe England.

What else can it be but a lie, Frank? When one knows that this silly nonsense has been debunked.

Joe England gave a response that should have given you [and Roberta] pause. But Roberta, the editor, fled, stating that there is no use discussing the issue, her mind is made up and nothing anyone could say would change her mind.

That people seize and cling to such "arguments" in defense of these prescriptions really should have given you pause, Frank.

But on you trudged, even ignoring Joe England's completely rational explanation, which, didn't give you a moment's pause. You have hung on here for days and numerous posts, ignoring the facts, ignoring all those things that would give a thinking person pause, and you still haven't had the decency to apologize to Joe or H2oman.

You advanced this knowing full well that there was ample reason to, at the very least, consider that it was in dispute.

How can what you initially said be anything but a lie, Frank?

No, a "sorry that you think it's a lie, but to me it isn't" doesn't fly. The facts, those pesky little things that you are so adept at ignoring, tell a much different story.

Yes, some people are taught rules of grammar…and they try to follow them. I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course the rule was concocted. All rules are concocted. You do realize that, do you not?

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Just more inane drivel, Frank. You seem to be of the opinion that when Frank Apisa speaks his opinion, it actually matters.

The issue is 'everyone/their' and you haven't addressed it in any substantial manner. The best you've done is commiserate with Roberta.

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Yes, some people are taught rules of grammar…and they try to follow them. I see nothing wrong with that.

Of course you don't see anything wrong with that, Frank. That's simply your own personal ignorance of what constitutes a rule of grammar.

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Of course the rule was concocted. All rules are concocted. You do realize that, do you not?


Here again, your ignorance running wild. We're speaking of the rules of language and no, the rules of language are most certainly not concocted.

You have also been given more than enough source material to have made sense of this, that you wouldn't continue to wallow in your ignorance.

You do realize that, do you not?

How is a person to reply to this, Frank? Do they answer 'yes' or 'no' and what would be the fact situation that would cause either a 'yes' or a 'no' to be used?

The “everyone/their” was a sidebar. In any case, I have addressed it.

Actually they are.

Oh gosh, major reversion to angry, angst driven insults.

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How is a person to reply to this, Frank? Do they answer 'yes' or 'no' and what would be the fact situation that would cause either a 'yes' or a 'no' to be used?

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Frank: I think I answered that.

I don't recall that. If you wouldn't mind, please do so again.

Point to the place where you "addressed it", Frank.

I showed you with a quote from experts that they aren't. I showed you with an example from real life. You ignored both in favor of your drivel because drivel is all you have. Am I surprised that you are enamored of your drivel, Frank? Not at all.

Not insults, Frank, merely the truth. The truth hurts, but it is needed. By your own admission, you are not an expert, yet you continue to act like you are.

You just might come to see that tangents and the stark fashion you so readily display in ignoring the issues only highlights your ignorance.

What are you two arguing about Frank?

I've lost track.

JTT seems to be arguing that grammar rules in general are not all that important...that people should speak and write as they see fit.

I have acknowledged that grammar rules in general are not all that important...that people should speak and write as they see fit.