The Waste of Obamacare

tell me what you really think. You have no idea what the Supreme Court was doing

but come on joeyahoo, uh brunojack, uh, whatever his name is, really stuck it to old obama, didn't he

Maybe I should ask you: What is the cost of healthcare after the bill as opposed to the cost before, and what happens to the bill no paid by people without insurance who need catastophic care???

From my perspective, the bill did not go far enough toward ending profit for providers or insurance companies... A nation's health care is a national problem, and laying the cost of treatment on the individual when it is only seldom the result of individual behavior is the quick way to injustice, poor treatment, half treatment, and dangerous treatment that makes everyone vulnerable and drives up the cost...Mr. Obama's bill does not begin to go far enough, and it points out the fact that there are no half way solutions... I do not think the supreme court can figure the facts out, or act in a non partisan manor... The bills not paid for health care threaten to swamp the federal government... They will be there, even more, if the bill is overturned... This is not just the health of individuals at stake... Everyone is going to feel the effects, including the rich, if the health care system crashes...We need a single payer system, and an end to the tyranny of the insurance companies; but we will not see that, with, or without this bill...

I know that skinny old scrawny example of a woman on the court is sounding a lot like deputy Dog... It might be time for her to consider retiredness...It works for me, and keeps me out of the way...She is more clearly past her prime than anyone in the government should get...

ah, i asked what that thing was on another thread, so it's a woman of some sort, not. as i thought, the crypt keeper or a bundle of sticks wrapped up in a robe

From one end to the other, the government is a bunch of fossils, dead to the present and living in the past... We need democracy... I don't care if it gives some idiots some authority in their own lives as long as I have some authority in mine... Look at these idiots trying to see if a law in some senses responding to the needs of today fits with a document written over two hundred years ago... Where are those people of that time, and what is their answer for todays problems??? They could not answer their own needs with the government they created... They answered the demands of the wealthy, and put everyone else off... Let them keep doing it to prove how useless and dead they are: Shades, and zombies gussied up in black, appropriate for the funeral of their nation...

I agree with you Yahoojack. Everyone in their right mind knows we need a Single Payer system. I have opposed this ridiculous exercise in futile compromise since about the time the public option was taken off the table (meaning that there would not even be an attempt at a reasonable middle ground).

We will end up with a Single Payer System. We should have started off there.

What I said was that millions were spent writing this bill and, now that it is being declared unconstitutional, all that money and time was wasted.
29 states sued to overturn this bill because the American public does not want to be forced into a plan.A number of groups have applied to opt out of Obamacare, among them the members of Congress.If a single payer system were so good, people from Canada would not be crossing the border to get treatment here.
In Britain and Canada, which both have national health care, people have to wait years for surgery and many of them die while they wait.You cannot impose your priorities on the American public.That is tyranny.

speaking as a Canadian, you're talking out your ass, the system ain't perfect but the **** your pedaling is just fear mongering, nobody i know (grandfather, 2 grandmothers, father, 2 uncles) has ever had a problem getting service in hospitals, and all surgeries have been prompt, my one uncle died waiting for a heart transplant because they didn't find him an appropriate donor, and in my opinion, given his other health problems and his age he should have been low on the list

Speaking as an Englishman I concur. The NHS is brilliant, despite the Condems trying to carry out unwanted reforms. Nobody over here, apart from a few carpetbaggers, wants an American style system. In fact using the bogey of American-style healthcare make people vote Labour in their thousands.

People don't die waiting for treatment in the UK. People die in America because they can't afford treatment. That's murder, and the British people won't accept thinly disguised nazi ideology. It's just another form of eugenics.

You are worried about a damned little bit of worthless paper money when people are wasting their lives in emergency rooms, or worried about paying their bills, worried if they can afford to go to the doctor, worried about whether they will be treated at all without insurance, or worried that some untreated, or half treated person will give them and the rest of the country a disease that will clean our collective slate...

Our time is worth as little as our lives to those who pay us, or who drive us out of our jobs... They certainly do not realize how much of public health care ends up making first class care for the rich a possibility...They do not realize the extent to which public health costs are breaking the government, and what will happen if the government must go broke and refuse those costs...The inevitable logic of socialist economics is coming home to roost in this issue as with many others... All that the commonwealth produces must pay for all the needs of the commonwealth, even if all the commonwealth is privatized... Individual people are never in a fair position from which to negotiate good wages that pay the expenses of life...We cannot ever get into a position against the effort of our government and the capitalist class to organize to get the necessities of life out of the commonwealth; but it is for such necessities that governments are organized...

WE do not need unions... We need the goverment to be our union, to look after our interests and respond to our needs... To date, the government has only served the needs of the rich... That must end, or the government must end, and the rich must end their hold on the commonwealth which is after all, only a trust...The government has betrayed our trust... The rich have betrayed our trust... The support of the commonwealth is being denied to us by those who think they own it free and clear... They will find out that private property is a privilage no nation can afford if it means mass starvation, public illness and disease, and wide spread misery and unhappiness... The rich and the government will die so that this people can live, or they will destroy us...

And some of our businesses actually relocate to Canada because health care is a predictable and affordable cost... Spread over the entire economy health care should be an inconsiderable cost... Once one employer cuts his people out of it, all are under pressure to cut theirs, and eventually even public employees cannot afford insurance... Private insurance, and the government have to pick up all the cost that is not paid by individuals without the ability to pay, who cannot pay, and cannot afford insurance...If you take the profit out of it people will still do it like a job... Most doctors are not free agents... They work for a check like everyone else...The only question is: how much are we going to let employer profit, and insurance company profit ruin life for everyone...

Public health is a public problem... Sure; people living in a short sighted and mean spirited society can be inspired to deny others the benefit of national health care, but the will themselves also suffer the costs in higher premiums, worse service, and a broken health care system... And people will suffer much they do not deserve to see others suffering as they think they do deserve, and it is irrational, and natural... It is the object of government to see the needs of the country, to see the dangers that threaten us, and to work to supply those need and combat those dangers in a rational fashion... When your whole economy and religion is predicated on irrationality, and your government is designed to feed that irrationality out of the efforts of the poor; it is difficult for the voice of reason to be heard in any but the most dire necessity...

The mathamatics of the question are simple: The bill will be paid... And the bill will only grow larger if it is passed off from hand to hand until it finally gets to the government which cannot afford it, but dares not let people drop dead in the street from illness... Our society is not good for people or healthy... Our economy is on life support though it is supposed to support the whole people...If we cannot expect our economy to support the government that supports it out of our wages, and if it cannot support the needs of the people for health when only healthy people can learn and work, then what good is the economy??? The ultimate question is whether any good ever came out of capitalism that it has not already taken back from the people...If it cannot kill us directly through war, accident, or overwork; it wants to see us die of unnatural causes so that it can live...

The demons are in no danger from you; but if it were ever open season on dumasses you would be in trouble...

There are millions of Americans who would love a Canadian style health care system.

There are very few, if any, Canadians who are asking for an American style health care system (that is before or after "obamacare").

Naturally, because there are millions of Americans without health care available, affordable, or even possible to access until it is too late to do any good... Add to this the fact that we suffer too much stress, work too long, are in terrible shape with poor diets, and do not get early and preventive medical care and screening when it might do us some good.. Where is the government that would protect us from events beyond our control, like toxins and filth in the air and water... When are they really going to provide us with safe work places, or even safe schools.. If the government does not want to do the job of government it should fold up its tent and get the hell out...