The Great Gibson Guitar Raid … Months later, still no charges

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http://hotair.com/archives/2012/02/23/video-the-great-gibson-guitar-raid-months-later-still-no-charges/

Quote:

Last August, the federal government raided a Gibson Guitar factory and confiscated property worth at least $500,000. What had Gibson Guitars done wrong? They had imported wood from India and failed to follow every “jot and tittle” of the regulatory law … not of the United States, but of India.

Apparently, Gibson used an inappropriate tariff code on the wood. According to Reason.tv, “At issue is not whether the wood in question was endangered, but whether the wood was the correct level of thickness and finish before being exported from India.” In other words, Gibson’s violation had nothing to do with forest preservation.

Thanks to a bureaucratic U.S. law called The Lacey Act, Gibson and other importers can be criminally prosecuted by the U.S. government for violations not only of U.S. regulatory law, but also for violations of other countries’ regulatory laws. The Indian government didn’t see a reason to penalize Gibson — but Gibson’s own government did.

The Lacey Act was originally passed in the early 1900s to prevent illegal trafficking of endangered fish and wildlife, but expanded to include plant life and international trade. Over the years, it was repeatedly amended and became increasingly broader and vaguer. In the process, it turned into a perfect example of the way overregulation leads to overcriminalization.

Reason.tv recently checked in with Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz to see how the case has progressed. Turns out, the DOJ has filed no charges. That means Gibson hasn’t had its day in court to defend itself — and the government still has all that confiscated property.

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=V5IYGroW1nA

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[+3] - farmerman - 03/01/2012because wood was not 6 mm thick? cmaon. You are talking crimnal intent here? I think youve made up your mind on this. Just because Gunga said it doesnt necessarily mean its always wrong

@gungasnake,

Ive been looking for a replacement Gibson C-1 and have yet to make the purchase. I hope these guitars are listed with their serial numbers . I want to buy one of these that were confiscated. They will have a great story behind them.

What a pile of crap for Commerce. Why the hell are we enforcing Indias laws? **** em.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

This is what happens when Gaea-worshipers take over a political party and the party takes over a country.

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@gungasnake,

Hot air indeed.

An inappropriate tariff code has nothing to do with Indian law if the item is being imported into the US.

http://isfsoftware.wordpress.com/2011/02/15/5-things-to-know-about-harmonized-tariff-system-hts-classification/

The importer is responsible to put the correct tariff code on the imported item. That isn't Indian law. It is US law.

1 Reply

@parados,

By the way, the US government can confiscate any imported item that is not correctly identified. They don't have to file charges against the importer.

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Gunga says:

Quote:

This is what happens when Gaea-worshipers take over a political party and the party takes over a country.

Gunga's own cite said:

Quote:

Apparently, Gibson used an inappropriate tariff code on the wood. According to Reason.tv, “At issue is not whether the wood in question was endangered, but whether the wood was the correct level of thickness and finish before being exported from India.” In other words, Gibson’s violation had nothing to do with forest preservation.

Gunga went on another of his uber-right rants and he didn't even have his facts right.

Idiot.

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And I gotta say, Gibson makes great guitars. The govt. tends to sell off surplus and confiscated goods (not including drugs, obviously), often at absurdly low prices. If anyone hears about them putting Gibsons out for sale, PM me, okay?

Next time pay a little more attention to the paperwork, Gibson.

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Quote:

India does not allow wood to be exported if it is sawn or chipped lengthwise, sliced, peeled or more than 6 millimeters thick, the government contends in the court filing. The sawn ebony wood intercepted by U.S. customs agents in Dallas was 10 millimeters thick.

Initial customs documents for the shipment falsely described the wood as veneer, less than 6 millimeters thick and finished parts of musical instruments, according to the court document.

In addition, rather than listing Gibson as its ultimate consignee as required, California-based Luthier Mercantile International initially was declared to be the final destination for the wood, agents reported.

A federal Department of Homeland Security data system tracking all imports to the U.S., the federal agent reported, showed 11 shipments of sawn ebony or rosewood from India bound for Gibson facilities in Memphis, Nashville or in Bozeman, Mont.

So.. Gibson filed false documents when importing the wood, which itself is a violation of the Lacey Act.

1 Reply

@parados,

Here is a detailed explanation of the case and why the US government enforced the Lacey Act in this case. It includes many facts ignored by gunga and his sources:

http://www.eia-global.org/News/Update_GibsonRaid.html

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@gungasnake,

Oh.. the DOJ is pursuing a civil case against Gibson which allows them to collect evidence under subpoena.

The evidence from the civil suit can lead to criminal charges which requires a willful act on the part of those importing.

1 Reply

@parados,

If we really want to find devils under our beds , we will find devils under our beds. I see no reason to criminalize Gibson for this. Its ridiculous . These were market woods of grove grown trees especially for export /
I still say, why must we do Indias bookkeeping.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

It appears Gibson illegally imported something into the US. The fact that it was listed as one thing when it left India and another when it entered the US shows an intent to deceive when neither of the listed items is what it actually was.

We are NOT doing India's bookkeeping. That is a red herring introduced by Gibson or their defenders. US import law was broken.

1 Reply

@parados,

because wood was not 6 mm thick? cmaon. You are talking crimnal intent here?
I think youve made up your mind on this. Just because Gunga said it doesnt necessarily mean its always wrong

1 Reply

Yeah, you're right, farmer, he isn't always wrong. I just took a list at Gunga's topics, to see which he made sense on and which didn't. By a rough estimate, he made sense on model planes.

1 Reply

@MontereyJack,

and oklahoma football...

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okay, I don't know diddly about Oklahoma football, so I'll take your word on that one. That brings his total all the way up to two.

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@farmerman,

Perhaps you missed it. No criminal charges have been filed. Yet.

This was part of a 2 year investigation of illegal importation of wood products.

The wood left India classified as being finished wood products
It entered the US as being unfinished veneer.
There is no reason for it to change classification unless they were attempting to skirt import/export laws

1 Reply

@parados,

Id wonder a bit. "Finished" veneers are held to be a certain thickness (usually thinner cause its bladed or sanded down to , say 6mm). UNFINISHED, would mean that its still a greater thickness, or am I missing something? They dont "finish" veneers by covering them woth varnish or sealer cause GIBSON may already have its own sound deadening lacquers or varnishes.

This was all ebony?. That wood is only sed for fret boards and trim no?
Is it a big overall mistake or is the Federal govt just showing the guys at Gibson whose got the juice??

I have no idea but I dont wann **** with the post office when theyre carrying guns(My own experience with the Border patrol and Dept commerce has shown me that they are total incompeteants) My wife ships several thousand pounds of wool to a CAnadian mill each year and she always has to "Run to the Maine Canada border" to get it out of hock becasuse, through no fuckin fault of hers, the processed wool hqas been given a totally new catalog designation is the past year. This has cost us at least 3 times over the 15 years weve been using the CAnadian Mill. Its almost not worth it but because the Canadain mill gives her back her own wool (Its a soft mix of Delane -Merino and Corriedale wool that is a special soft, high loft fibre).

SO, Im wondering how much of this is the arbitrariness and capricious posture of Commerce.??

Im not on anybodys side YET.

1 Reply

@farmerman,

I took the time to look up the HTS code it left India as.
"finished wood product" in that case meant is was a part or accessory for a musical instrument. It didn't leave India as raw wood. It left India as a manufactured product.

Quote:

HTS9209
Parts (for example, mechanisms for music boxes) and
accessories (for example, cards, discs and rolls
for mechanical instruments) of musical instruments;
metronomes, tuning forks and pitch pipes of all
kinds:

What it was classified as entering the US

Quote:

HTS4408 Sheets for veneering (including those obtained by slicing laminated wood), for plywood or for similar laminated wood and other wood, sawn lengthwise, sliced or peeled, whether or not planed, sanded, spliced or end-jointed, of a thickness not exceeding 6 m

What it should have been classified as:

Quote:

HTS4407
Wood sawn or chippedlengthwise, sliced or peeled, whether or not planed, sanded or end-jointed, of a thicknessexceeding 6 mm:

1 Reply

@parados,

so, it is a code issue based upon > and not< 6mm.
WOW, call out the police and kets get these criminals and get em into Leavenworth

2 Replies

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