18
   

Tracking and revealing the trolls....ok or not?

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:29 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
You could tell he was living in a sink council estate, that's not a measure of success.
I 've never heard that nomenclature b4. What is that ?
djjd62
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:30 am
@OmSigDAVID,
think public housing project
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:34 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Council housing is social housing provided by the council. A sink estate is a particularly run down example, riddled with all sorts of problems. Nobody would actually choose to live in one. They gave rise to the term postcode prejudice.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:35 am
One of the Englishmen here once opined that Chav stands for "council housing and violence."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:42 am
@Setanta,
There's a lot of truth in that, although it's not strictly true. I think it originates in gypsy slang. When I was living in Kent in the 70s the word chavvie was used in place of bloke, but language doesn't stand still. I'm reading a friend's biography of his father at the moment. Shortly after the war he got a job at an open air swimming pool called The Gay Adventure.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:43 am
I think his tongue was in his cheek at the time . . . it was a contemptuous social comment.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:54 am
@dlowan,
Exposing trolls might work in England, but here in the U.S. people are crazy
and I would fear that more violence would be spread through tracking and revealing. What's one's troll is another one's friend. Where do you draw the line?

Look at today's yahoo headline - just for defriending a girl on facebook, her parents killed the couple in question. Absurd, crazy, so unnecessary, yet it did happen.

http://news.yahoo.com/facebook-defriending-led-double-murder-police-014442236.html
sozobe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:58 am
I think it's a terrible idea.

I have the same initial emotional reaction, but I agree that it's too revenge-based, would not have any actual positive effect (way too easy to mask where you're actually from if this became a thing), may well have negative effects (one way to mask is to pretend you're someplace you're not -- a perfectly innocent person could be "revealed" as a troll), is on a pretty pernicious slippery slope (a teenager in a conservative small town environment asks anonymous questions about being gay, and is tracked down and outed), etc., etc.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 09:59 am
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Exposing trolls might work in England


Cardiff is the capital of Wales.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:01 am
@izzythepush,
i didn't realize they had trolls in wales, i thought it was all pixies and sprites
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:10 am
@Setanta,
Set, I have no doubt that most editors would not publish hate-filled screeds…you are correct about that. But my guess is that many people, knowing they would be identified, would not want to say some of the stuff that is said anonymously.

Your comment about Roman graffiti hit home with me. Ancient Roman graffiti (as opposed to tagged American graffiti) was anonymous. That is why some graffiti in Rome depicted Caesar (while at the height of his power) fellating the King of Bithnya…something he supposedly did. The anonymity of the graffiti artist seems to be important for this to happen….and appears to be part of the reason graffiti was so rampant in Rome.

Pompeii was in the midst of an election when Vesuvius buried it. I was privileged to see the graffiti there when I visited in the mid1950’s…and, thanks to a bribe of several packs of cigarettes, got to visit the top floor of the Naples Museum with its vast collection of Pompeian porn and graffiti. I understand the top floor is now open to the public, but back then, it was accessible only to archeologists and scholars—and servicemen who offered bribes.

Don’t think anything will ever be done to require true identities on the Internet, and if asked, I could probably offer a decent set of reasons against doing so.

But, in my equally humble opinion Very Happy , I still think it would be a good thing.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:14 am
@Setanta,
Surely Ovid couldn't have been as scurrilous as Juvenal?
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:16 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
When I was living in Kent in the 70s the word chavvie was used in place of bloke...


Funny you should mention this, Izzy. I was stationed in England during the mid-1950's (I was thinking about that when responding to Set)...and the American service personnel always used "bloke" as a substitute for Englishman or Englishwoman. It was not a derogatory term...and was not meant in any way as a slur...certainly not the way an American might use "Limey. "

One guy talking to another might ask about a date the night before and ask, "Was she a bloke?"...meaning, was she English as opposed to one of the WAF's on the base.

"Bloke"...I just love the word.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:16 am
@CalamityJane,
Yikes!

Though there are bizarre reasons for murder wherever there are humans, I fear.
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:18 am
@Frank Apisa,
Blokes are definitely male here.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:30 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
Council housing is social housing provided by the council.
A sink estate is a particularly run down example, riddled with all
sorts of problems. Nobody would actually choose to live in one.
They gave rise to the term postcode prejudice.
In contemplation of your post,
I looked at the video again, but I am at a loss to understand
what is distinct, in a negative sense, about the realty in question.
I was looking for run-down conditions surrounded by uncollected trash,
but I saw only 1 discolored corrugated metal security door,
in otherwise clean conditions.

( Do u know whether he lived there ?)

I remember taking cabs from the Railroad Station in Albany, NY
( the capital of NY ) to the NY Court of Appeals. I needed to close my eyes,
for the repugnant conditions of lack of maintenance:
a horrible assault upon the sensibilities! Gross n foul; it was UGLY.
Thay mostly consisted of failure to paint the real estate.
The paint was falling off, everywhere; extremely run-down conditions, in contrast
to what I saw in this video.

I don' t get the point. Maybe thay r bad on the inside; I dunno.

Did u see something in particular that led u to your negative
evaluation of the area? I 'm just curious regarding your evaluative processes.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:36 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
Blokes are definitely male here.
Do u have any blokettes ?
0 Replies
 
George
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:38 am
At the end of that video I wondered, what's the point. The troll didn't
seem the least abashed. I was impressed that he knew the exact penalty
for whatever type of racist speech is illegal there right off the top of his
head. I wonder whether he has continued to troll.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:42 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
I was thinking of the Roman graffiti, too.....I do wonder, though, if it was more a means of free speech in a fairly oppressive society, often aimed at power, rather than hate speech directed at races or religions, though?


It was both, at least in regard to power and religion.

Frank already described an instance of the former.

There's an example of Roman graffiti called the Alexamenos Graffito in which the inscriber wrote something to the effect of "Alexamenos worshipping his god" along with a depiction of Alexamenos and an ass headed figure hanging on a crucifix.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/AlexGraffito.svg/220px-AlexGraffito.svg.png
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Feb, 2012 10:51 am
@dlowan,
He didn't have the same connections--he was socially a nobody. Juvenal was the son of a very wealthy man, and he studied rhetoic and law with Quintillian--his satires show a prodound knowledge of the law. Ovid, by contrast, gave up a career in the law, to the despair of his father.

Also, the times matter. Ovid was exiled by Augustus personally, and at the time that Augustus exiled two of his grandchildren and had a third executed on an allegation that they were involved in an assassination plot against him. Ovid may have been implicated as he knew these two men and one woman. Quite apart from that Augustus was a prig who prated constantly about ancient republican virtues and who attempted to impose those values on his society.

Finally, Juvenal lived in less politically settled times, during the end of the Flavian dynasty and relative chaos which followed the end of the Flavian dynasty. Nevertheless, Juvenal was himself exiled by Nerva, and was mentioned contemptuously by Domitian. Nerva was the emperor after the death of Domitian, the last of the Flavians. Juvenal's exile ended shortly after the death of Nerva, and Nerva was succeeded by Trajan, whom one could consider a "Spaniard," and who was not a member of the patrician order. I suspect that Trajan was not as concerned with the public reputation of the old families of Rome, and would not have been personally offended by Juvenal's satires. Whether or not Ovid was implicated in a plot against Augustus, he had personally offended the emperor. One could even say Augustus gave him the benefit of the doubt in letting him live.
0 Replies
 
 

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