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Should homeschoolers be allowed to play on public school teams?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 09:54 am
'K guys, thanks . . .
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 12:36 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

My neice is homeschooled, she has very poor social skills, so I would welcome anything that gave her the opportunity to interact with other children.
Do u hold the belief that b4 the advent of public education,
that everyone had "very poor social skills",
i.e., that it was not an individual matter ??????





David
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 01:11 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Before the advent of state education society was far more dysfunctional than it is today. Talking about whether or not it was down to the acquisition of social skills is rather bizarre considering how very different it was then. I think the difference between now and then is so great it makes any form of comparison highly dubious.
0 Replies
 
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 02:14 pm
@ehBeth,
The problem there is that some areas do not go above 14 years old with community leagues. We are in the county and that is absolutely the case. If my boys want to play baseball past the age of 14, they will have to make the baseball team at the public school. That means tryouts. My inclination is let them. They do pay taxes. I am not going to whine just because that takes away opportunities for my boys.

It is expensive to play ball even for public school children. Our highschools require $1000 along with requirements to be part of fundraisers and such. Another highschool in the next county over requires $2000 (that is football). Some are more than that - these schools are huge recruiting schools for college though. So if they have the money and make the team...why not?

Engineer wrote:
Quote:
So what happens when the home school player gets cut from the team? Lawsuit? The schools here have all sorts of rules for school athletes around grades and attendence. For example, a student cannot participate in a sport if they missed school that day. Do home schoolers have to follow that rule? It seems like a real can of worms.


I can see where that would be a problem. Florida allows many of their homeschoolers to play at the public schools...I wonder what their guidelines are?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 06:16 pm
A few questions & comments from an outsider, if that's OK ....

Quote:
The problem there is that some areas do not go above 14 years old with community leagues. We are in the county and that is absolutely the case.

From what I'm reading, local schools (public or private) in the US appear to be the sole providers of sports teams in some communities. do I have that right?

If that is right, why is it so? Why aren't there more community teams?
More amateur sporting organisations?
That is the tradition in many other countries, including mine.
I grew up in a small farming community with a population around 1000 & local sport was a very popular community activity. That town (like similar country towns all over the place) had local football & cricket teams, net ball teams, which played in local leagues ... and were very well supported by lots of community volunteers (my dad collected entry fees at the gate at every Saturday afternoon football game, for years, local volunteers provided the refreshment tent ... lots of fund-raising activities & perhaps some donations from local businesses now then, I'm not sure ... )
School sports activities were/are still completely separate activities to local sports organisations. Of course sports "stars" from local schools often played in the home-town team, too. And, if they were good enough, were often recruited to more "advanced" leagues & so & so on .... right up to professional leagues.

Quote:
It is expensive to play ball even for public school children. Our highschools require $1000 along with requirements to be part of fundraisers and such. Another highschool in the next county over requires $2000 (that is football).

Missy, I can't understand why any local school (public school, especially) would do that. From my perspective a public school's function is to provide an education for the students enrolled in it. That's what it's purpose is. This sounds rather like your local schools are running a business, almost. That would not be allowed, I'm pretty certain, in Oz public schools, or in many other countries, I'd imagine . I doubt any private schools here would operate school teams on that basis, either. (though they do receive lots of outside donations, including government funding, too. )

I'm really perplexed by all this. To me, it sounds like local schools are expected/required (?) to provide sports activities, in the absence of community-based teams.

-
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 06:53 pm
@msolga,
Our community is HUGE compared to yours. Smile

We do have community sports...but they end at 14 years of age in our area. I do not know why. Maybe it is because kids are involved in their school sports - whether that be public or private.

The schools in our area are exemplary in their academics. They are some of the top schools in the country. PE (physical education - that is required for kids to take) will cover some sports for fun and exercise, but competitive sports is different.

It is an elective and you have to try out to be on the team. There can be around 1000 - sometimes more - kids in one highschool here. That is highly competitive. The money from our taxes goes to academics - with some going to the sports programs... but if you choose to play sports, then you have to pay the price and be good enough to make the team. I am sure if there is a child that shows promise they will find a way to fund him...but most families here are willing to pay the money if their kid makes the team.

Football is a huge deal here in the Southeast. Many college teams recruit from the highschools in this area so it becomes a funnel for scholarships and such. To make the colleges take notice - money has to be thrown at the program. Parents seem only too happy to do this so that their school's program will be noticed. Many parents will even fund scholarships for kids that are not able to pay the fees.

As far as a community team that would enable a child to be able to receive a sports scholarship...some areas just don't have them. I truly don't know why. Public schools and community are two totally different things as far as funding is concerned though.

It sounds like you are very blessed Msolga. I love where we live though. We make choices and don't feel are children are automatically entitled to play sports. I have no clue how other folks feel about it though.

As far as homeschoolers finding a place to be able to play competitive sports - yes - in some areas there are no community teams to be able to offer a highschool kid the ability to play. So the public schools would be the best place for them to do that. But I see issues such as what Engineer pointed out.

Truly - I just gave my opinion. Unfortunately - because my kids are not in highschool - I am not qualified to give much more than that. Smile
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:04 pm
@Setanta,
My evanston catholic grammar school team was up there in the stats, which stats I don't remember.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:10 pm
@mismi,
Thanks for taking the time to explain things, Missy.
Gosh. An entirely different world.:

Quote:
It is an elective and you have to try out to be on the team. There can be around 1000 - sometimes more kids in one highschool here. That is highly competitive. The money from our taxes goes to academics - with some going to the sports programs... but if you choose to play sports then you have to pay the price and be good enough to make the team. I am sure if there is a child that shows promise they will find a way to fund him...but most families here are willing to pay the money if their kid makes the team.


I'm beginning to see Thomas's point about removing sport from the education system altogether. It seems to change the nature of what public education is meant to be about.

Quote:
It sounds like you are very blessed Msolga. I love where we live though. We make choices and don't feel are children are automatically entitled to play sports. I have no clue how other folks feel about it though.

I was describing the the country town I agree up in, Missy.
Quite a while ago, though things are pretty much the same these days re amateur sports here.

(BTW I detested (enforced) sports participation in high school ... phys ed was quite enough for me, thank you! Smile )
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:12 pm
@mismi,
There are co-ops for homeschooled children in our area...I know of two. A co-op is a place where the kids may go one to 2 days a week and be able to receive tutoring on specific subjects. I think these are growing in popularity for many homeschoolers. It takes care of the socialization issues some seem to have with being a single child being schooled in the home. Maybe these can offer some kind of organized sports programs for those kids who are wanting to play sports while in highschool.
sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:16 pm
@msolga,
I don't know a lot about how it works at the higher age levels, but a slice of life from around here (Midwest):

There are definitely club soccer and softball/baseball teams throughout. No upper age limit, some people go straight from one to college without having played on their school team.

Sozlet's involved in one club soccer team, then a more informal local softball team. Neither are affiliated with her school. There are a bunch of different soccer clubs, so pretty much anyone can find one that competes at their level. I think that probably tapers off at higher ages, and it becomes that only the more elite athletes play for a club. Sozlet's in a mid-range club, and we pay a pretty low fee. The more competitive ones can get really expensive.

I don't think you have to pay to play high school sports at all here but I'm just not sure. If there is a fee I'd expect it to be WAY below $1,000. There is a lot of community/ parental involvement. There are always fundraisers of one sort or another going on -- go to a certain restaurant on a certain day and 20% of the profits will go to a given team, etc. Concessions are big too, especially for football. Parents are expected to man the concession stand and do various volunteery things for all sports that I know of. (That's already true for us with softball, we don't have to do anything but ante up the fee for soccer though. Basketball is also commitment-free, and a VERY low fee, like $25 or something. I think it goes towards the referee's fees.)
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:20 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
I'm beginning to see Thomas's point about removing sport from the education system altogether. It seems to change the nature of what public education is meant to be about.


Sports is not something I am concerned with my children being educated in. I want them to be educated in the more important things - math, grammar, writing, reading, science - etc...That is important and will aid them in their obtaining jobs one day. Sports is great for activities and teaching fair play and competition. They receive this in their physical education classes that they are required to take. They play tennis, and basketball, soccer, football and other things.

There are things outside of academics that the children can choose as well. Band, where they learn to play instruments, Journalism - such as the schools yearbook, cheerleading, sports - all of these things the kids are welcome to do as electives. But these are outside of the academics and as far as I am concerned are not of huge importance unless that child shows promise and would like to pursue a career in that particular area. If that is the case, then they get an opportunity to try out for that team. But I don't see that as an issue as far as academics are concerned. And as I said - most people are willing to help out the kids who cannot afford it. I don't think it is as a big deal. But maybe that is because I live here and am used to it. It just makes sense to me.

I have never been so pleased with public schools as I have been by these in our area. Amazing teachers...my boys are getting a great education. Much different when I was growing up. Horrid teachers, and I missed out on a lot of things I had to learn on my own. So each area is different. Some school systems are definitely better than others.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:29 pm
@mismi,
Quote:
There are co-ops for homeschooled children in our area...

Sounds like an excellent development, Missy.
Some "school time" away from their usual tutor/parents .
I'm curious, is it usual from school children to be tutored for their entire education (p-12) ?
I read somewhere that the trend to home-schooling in the US is huge! (Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone.)
I can imagine there'd be considerable socialization problems for some, after 12 years of home-tutoring. So those co-ops make a lot of sense.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 07:47 pm
@sozobe,
Thanks for your insights, too, soz.

Sounds very much like there are different approaches to participation in sports, in & out of schools, & between different schools, too, depending on the area. Interesting.
I guess parents would have a big say on what approach their school adopted?

I really hate the idea of any child's parents having to cough up anything like $1000 simply to participate in their local school team. If the student wasn't really talented in their chosen sport & the parents aren't too well off, that could mean that student could miss out altogether in they lived in the "wrong" area. That's really sad.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:00 pm
@msolga,
In many school settings--high school and college--organized, inter-school competetive sports function as recruiting grounds for professional sports. No child who is without talent is going to make the cut in a situation such as that. If the child has genuine talent, then somebody is going to find the money for them.

I mentioned earlier that our school was so small that we needed almost every boy in the school to field some teams. There are many, many schools like that in the country, and organized league sports are entirely different animal in those places. In Texas, where everyone is mad for football, the have special leagues for small schools where a modified version of the game is played which doesn't requite the full team of the standard game.

As far as i know, every state in the union requires physical education, so competetive league sports are seen as an extra. They are also highly competetive, to the extent that professional sports scouts will identify a potential future sports star, and even though he is in high school, they will work to get him sports scholarships to a college or university. The professional sports teams have strict rules about recruiting because of scandals in the past. In the case of baseball, however, a kid who is 18, and therefore able to sign a contract, can go directly from high school to a minor league ball club, the "grooming teams" for the major leagues.

There are necessarily many inequities. One of my brothers did not try out for organized competetive sports until his third year of high school. He did well, and then became the team star in his fourth year. He did well enough that he made some money playing minor league, "semi-pro" basketball while in college. In one of the big schools with hundreds, or even over a thousand students, he'd never have gotten a shot at the school team, never mind a modest professional team. It's very much about winning, it's very much about fielding the best team possible.
0 Replies
 
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:04 pm
@msolga,
I'm not exactly sure how high school sports work here but I'm sure I'll find out in another 3 years or so.

I do know that it is usually considered an extra curricular activity. If you play on the team you don't practice during the school day, you practice after school. It's a pretty major time commitment. Mr. B says high school athletes that play on school teams pay $200 - $300 per sport. It might be much cheaper here because we're the home of Nike, and Nike donates tons of equipment and money to high school sports (and millions and millions to college sports).

We have recreational leagues for all ages and all skill levels offered through our park department. Those leagues are pretty cheap to play on -- around $50 per person.

We also have club sports. The price varies by sport and skill level. We just signed up for baseball and it cost $180.
Rockhead
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:10 pm
@boomerang,
dunno about today's schools, but when I was in high school, if you were on one of the sports teams, you also took "sports study hall" and it was the last class of the day.

when in season, we practiced during this time. off season they were very relaxed about it, and we just kinda disappeared early...
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:14 pm
@boomerang,
Quote:
Should homeschoolers be allowed to play on public school teams?..


All anybody learns in public schools these days are raping and pillaging. Why would a home-schooler even want to join a raping or pillaging team??
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:16 pm
@boomerang,
Your recreational leagues are mostly just billing you for their liability insurance. I played softball in a city park league for many years, and you were presented a bill which specifically stated that you were paying insurance costs, and told you what the premiums were. We provided our own equipment, and the parks were maintained by the city.
boomerang
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:19 pm
@Setanta,
Our recreational league provides equipment, space, referees, score keepers, uniforms, the whole nine yards.
boomerang
 
  2  
Reply Sat 11 Feb, 2012 08:23 pm
@gungasnake,
Mo's raping and pillaging classes have been really lacking. He got an F in rape and a D in pillaging last year. I argued that if they had seen my refrigerator that he would have received an A++ in pillaging but they didn't go for that.

He's totally AP in fridge pillaging.
0 Replies
 
 

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