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Calling enthusiasts of crime fiction!

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 07:38 pm
@ossobuco,
okey dokey.

I'm off to the garden.
First reasonable day for getting some work done in ages!
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 07:41 pm
@msolga,
on Kanon - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Kanon
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 08:00 pm
@ossobuco,
Next, I pulled up from the mind fog the name of the guy who wrote the mysteries set in Amsterdam, that got me started on the international route re crime novels.

I had him as Weetering, but no,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janwillem_van_de_Wetering

I think I think of his books as a kind of prototype re the detective, but interesting in themselves. I read those a long time ago, got interested.


The belgian guy may be de Freeling, but I'm guessing at the name.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 08:06 pm
@ossobuco,
Ok, ok, Freeling was a brit -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Freeling, one of the writers that got me reading crime stuff.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 08:10 pm
@ossobuco,
I'll throw in the turk for spice, as apparently I'm the only one who likes this book -

Happy Birthday, Turk!
(pitch blac noir)

Jakob Arjouni
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Feb, 2012 10:02 pm
@msolga,
With regard to the essay here--horsie poop. There are many American writers of mystery whose victims are bumped off subtlely, and there are many English writers of mystery whose victims die from a very violent cause. Examples can be found in Dorothy Sayers' Peter Wimsey novel Busman's Honeymoon and in several of P. D. James' Adam Dalgleish mysteries. As James is the current doyenne of English crime fiction, i can see no reason to accept the claims of the essay.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 12:59 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
horsie poop

OK, fair enough.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 05:51 am
@ossobuco,
Thanks for those extra suggestions, osso.
I haven't read the links yet, but will ... soon.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 06:31 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

With regard to the essay here--horsie poop. There are many American writers of mystery whose victims are bumped off subtlely, and there are many English writers of mystery whose victims die from a very violent cause.


I can only imagine that the essay was talking about general trends. As such I think that American crime novels are mre likely to have people dying violently and that British crime writers are more likely to have its victims dying more subtle deaths. Of course you can pick out specific examples that fly in the face of the general trend, but that's true of all generalisations.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 06:38 am
@izzythepush,
One such generalization is that the English never miss an opportunity to portray themselves as subtle and civilized, and the Americans as crass and barbaric. No surprises there.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 06:46 am
@Setanta,
In some of the Briit crime shows like "Midsomer Murders" we are allowed to believe that a crime is solved wherein the skimpiest of evidence draws the murderer out. In real life, criminals are bettter trained in the legal system than are many prosecutors.
"Monk" was getting kind of Brit in the way hed solve a crime. Hed have an AHA moment that conveniently occured at 40 minutes past the hour.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 07:06 am
@Setanta,
That's below you. I don't think it's got anything to do with that. Personally I love Chandler, but I can take or leave Christie. I don't read Chandler thinking how brutal Americans are. If you want to turn a generalisation about crime fiction into something else is says more about you than the subject. Perhaps if you took the chip of your shoulder you wouldn't need to fly off the handle at every opportunity.

I don't think you're brutal and uncivilised at all, a little waspish perhaps, and you're certainly better informed than a lot of people I meet day to day.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 07:36 am
@izzythepush,
I don't have a chip on my shoulder, i've just seen and heard that kind of sniping all my life. You might consider the fact that the United States occupies a position of prominence, for better or worse, which makes them an easy target for criticism, whether justified or not. With the advent of the interweb, it's gotten even easier for foreigners to come to an American site and criticize the Americans. One need only look at the comments that Contrex routinely makes here to see evidence of that. When Spurious (a.k.a., Spendius) showed up here, he brought a buddy of his, whose screen name i don't recall, who was just full of nasty comments about the Americans, and racist comments about the Scots and the Irish. It ought to be beneath you not to recognize that not all of your fellow countrymen are sterling examples of tolerance.

P. D. James, as i mentioned, is the reigning doyenne of crime writing in England, and sudden violence plays a large role in many of her novels--people often make violent attacks on her hero figure, Adam Dalgleish. Dorothy Sayers' Peter Wimsey was involved in murders both subtle and brutal, and was sometimes the target of violent attempts on his life.

E. A. Poe is considered by many to be the father of "detective fiction." His two most well-known stories are Murders in the Rue Morgue and The Purloined Letter. Both involve the French police inspector Dupin. The first centers around a ghastly crime, which turns out not to have been a willful murder, and the second is a story of great subtlety.

A generalization such as this is unsupportable except on the basis of an exhaustive review of the detective fiction of both nations, which i doubt that either of us are qualified to undertake. However, thinking that Chandler is characteristic of American detective fiction is roughly the equivalent of taking Colonel Blimp as a type for English military officers.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 07:47 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
It ought to be beneath you not to recognize that not all of your fellow countrymen are sterling examples of tolerance.


I've not suggested otherwise, we do have a lot of arseholes over here, although I'm not saying anything in particular about Contrex and Spendius. I've not read all their posts, some people just like to have an argument. It's easier to argue with Americans because there's so many of you online.

Quote:
However, thinking that Chandler is characteristic of American detective fiction is roughly the equivalent of taking Colonel Blimp as a type for English military officers.


Unfortunately there are a lot of Blimps alive and well in the services. I happen to think that Chandler is a great writer. If he were British, I would sing it from the rooftops.
Fido
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 07:51 am
@msolga,
Crime fictions, who done its, are in the same class as comedies, and everyone love comedies no matter how dark, and they are often quite dark... No wonder tragedy makes people happy... Actually, they make people better and allows them to feel better about themselves while crime fiction has the opposite effect of justifying the worst of our nature..
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 07:53 am
@izzythepush,
Yes, i think Chandler is a great writer, too. His style, however, is not the standard for American detective fiction. I just don't think the essay has a literary leg to stand on. As for Spendius, i've not accused him of being anti-American, i was referring to his companion in crime at the time they first showed up here. I haven't read his posts, literally, in years. As for Contrex, i run into him in the EFL threads all the time, and he never misses an opportunity to take a cheap shot at the Americans. He freely admits that he despises the Americans and all things American. I'm not saying that all Englishmen have that attitude--i am saying that if anyone has a chip on their collective shoulder, it's the Little Englanders dreaming of their vanished empire.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 08:00 am
@farmerman,
I enjoyed those episodes of Midsomer Murders which i saw, and i agree with you that they use the Perry Mason method of crime detection. I don't know what the Monk reference is about.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 08:04 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I'm not saying that all Englishmen have that attitude--i am saying that if anyone has a chip on their collective shoulder, it's the Little Englanders dreaming of their vanished empire.


The Little Englanders don't think it's vanished, they have the belief that were we to withdraw from the EU, we could embrace the Commonwealth, and have an Empire lite existence. You don't have to tell me that's a ludicrous proposition. I know it is.
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 09:14 am
@msolga,
Apart from Ed McBain's 87th Precinct series, most of which I have, from the early ones in the 1950s to the ones towards the end, no mystery author holds me quite as captive. Even McBain's other works don't hold me so well, I am not a fan of his Matthew Hope series.

Others that exist, Walter Mosley, without a doubt always an enjoyable as is the late Donald Westlake, I'm usually good with John Lescroart...the Dismas Hardy books in particular; but, his other works are equally decent and he gives a generalized feel of San Francisco in his description.

Most any book can hold me once I get past the first few pages and with mystery books it's a matter of hand me the crime I want to know what happened and I want to know in all the gory detail.

Of course exceptions exist, I have never understood anything of Agatha Christie, her works bore me to a place where my toes turn blue. Turn it into a movie and here stories become easier to handle.

Lawrence Block is just a boneheaded thief, and his works are a mixed bag, stealing from other authors and/or stealing from tales he overhears...that mostly applies to his Berine R. series. I don't like Larry, so maybe I'm not the best judge of his work. To have fun with him Twisted Evil , just go up and stare at him Twisted Evil , he begins to sweat Laughing and his charming wife Lynne has to escort him away. His writing ability is that of a high school student on a good day. Really, he's a talentless hack.

Sayers, Chandler, Ed Gorman, Anne Perry (although the fact that she killed someone before her career took off may add to the excitement there...just knowing she has a capability), several others. It's hard to single out any 1 or even put together 5, as is most cases with things, my strong interest in any particular author changes according to mood and health.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Feb, 2012 11:16 am
Some more -
for those who like bookstores and police work together, the John Dunning books are a good read, usually set in Denver, Colorado

police procedurals set in Rio, the protagonist a police detective with an interest in psychology - by Luiz Alfredo Garcia-Roza

One I liked a lot, Robert Wilson's A Small Death in Lisbon

Violent but interesting (to me), Out, by Natsuo Kirino; set in Tokyo

Crime novels set in Havana - see Leonardo Padura

I've liked Chandler, Hammett, Mosley, but haven't read them lately

I tend to avoid what I call grocery store books, best seller types that pulse violence every x number of pages, not entirely re the violence since some other books I like have it, but the routineness of the books.


Back later with some Soho Crime series titles..
 

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