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Double-Blind Violin Test: Can You Pick The Strad?

 
 
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 10:45 am
Double-Blind Violin Test: Can You Pick The Strad?
January 2, 2012
by Christopher Joyce NPR
All Things Considered

In a double-blind test by professional violinists, most couldn't determine — by sound alone — which violin was an original Stradivarius and which was a modern instrument. Above, a 1729 Stradivari known as the "Solomon, Ex-Lambert."

In a double-blind test by professional violinists, most couldn't determine — by sound alone — which violin was an original Stradivarius and which was a modern instrument. Above, a 1729 Stradivari known as the "Solomon, Ex-Lambert."

In the world of violins, the names Stradivari and Guarneri are sacred. For three centuries, violin-makers and scientists have studied the instruments made by these Italian craftsmen. So far no one has figured out what makes their sound different. But a new study now suggests maybe they aren't so different after all.

OK, here's a test. Clip one is a musical phrase from Tchaikovsky's Violin Concerto in D Major. Clip two is the same phrase. The same musician plays both. But one is on a Stradivarius violin, the other on a violin made in 1980. See if you can tell the difference.

PHOTO: http://www.npr.org/blogs/deceptivecadence/2012/01/02/144482863/double-blind-violin-test-can-you-pick-the-strad

Violin Test 1: Strad Or Modern?

Violin Test 2: Strad Or Modern?

It's a tough choice. But a professional violinist could tell the difference, right?

Well, a research team recently tried to find out. They gathered professional violinists in a hotel room in Indianapolis. They had six violins — two Strads, a Guarneri and three modern instruments. Everybody wore dark goggles so they couldn't see which violin was which.

Then the researchers told the musicians: These are all fine violins and at least one is a Stradivarius. Play, then judge the instruments.


Joseph Curtin, a violin-maker from Michigan, was one of the researchers. "There was no evidence that people had any idea what they were playing," he says. "That really surprised me."

Curtin says of the 17 players who were asked to choose which were old Italians, "Seven said they couldn't, seven got it wrong, and only three got it right."

Claudia Fritz designed the experiment. She's an acoustics physicist from France's National Center for Scientific Research — and a flute player, by the way. She says this test was more rigorous than previous ones because it was "double-blind" — no one knew which instrument was which until after the test. That rules out the kind of bias that might creep in when a musician judges an instrument he or she knows is 300 years old and maybe played by someone like Fritz Kreisler or Henryk Szeryng.

And this experiment asked seasoned violin players, not listeners, to choose.

Fritz says some of the players told her they were certain which were the new violins and which were the old Italians.

"'Ah, it's just a bit too new for me'," she recalled one musician saying. "And it was a Strad. Another one said, 'Ah, I love the sound of this one, it really has the sound of an old Italian, ah, just so warm.' And it was a brand new violin. "

When Fritz asked the players which violins they'd like to take home, almost two-thirds chose a violin that turned out to be new. She's found the same in tests with other musical instruments. "I haven't found any consistency whatsoever," she says. "Never. People don't agree. They just like different things."

In fact, the only statistically obvious trend in the choices was that one of the Stradivarius violins was the least favorite, and one of the modern instruments was slightly favored.

Now, what does that mean for all the years of research studying the old violins — the design, the wood, the varnish, even the glue? If no one can tell the difference, what's the point?

Well, Fritz says maybe researchers should focus more on people than old wood.

"People looked at the violin, tried to understand how it vibrates, what are the mechanics behind it," she says of past research. "But nobody has really looked at the human side." She says her research is aimed at determining how people choose what they like, and what criteria they use.

Curtin has spent years trying to capture the quality of old-world instruments. But he's not discouraged by the results. "If new violins get better, it doesn't mean old ones get worse," he says. "The question is, Can the sound be gotten from a new instrument, as well as an old one?"

The old Italians certainly sound great, but not necessarily better or even that different from the best new ones, he says. It's more in the mind, or ear, of the listener.

Dale Purves, a professor of neuroscience at Duke University, says the research "makes the point that things that people think are 'special' are not so special after all when knowledge of the origin is taken away."

The research appears in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

Oh, yeah, the test: Which of the two phrases we played came from the Stradivarius? The second one.
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 11:07 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I've been fortunate to hear real Strads played, one after the other, one morning at the Stradivarius Museum in Cremona, Italy. I was joyful, it was all so beautiful, the violins themselves and the music. I was the only visitor in the museum that early morning. But I felt abashed, in that I've not that great a musical ear, was just lucky to be there.

On the test, I picked correctly, but figure it to be sheer luck.
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 12:38 pm
@ossobuco,
I have "perfect pitch" and my music teachers used my talent for setting the pitch for the singers and the violinists and they didn't have to carry a tuning fork. They missed me when I left the a cappella corals and concert musicians. To this day, it still hurts my ears to listen to some musicians playing slightly off pitch. I've been tested several times by having me set the correct pitch for songs I have not heard for years. My ears still maintain my perfect pitch. The violinists were always surprised.

BBB

Frank Apisa
 
  5  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 12:45 pm
Hey BBB,

Interesting...but not really surprising.

I'm an ex-bartender.

I've often set up blind tests for people who are absolutely certain they can tell their favorite brand of Scotch or Bourbon from any others.

They can't! And although my tests have been few, I doubt many except a few professional tasters can come even close.

Wines are another of this sort of thing. I've done a blind test using a $25 bottle versus a bottle of Gallo ($8 for a gallon)...and had as many choose the Gallo as the finer taste.

My guess is the thoughts that for most, distinguishing the quality (or differences) of violins, food, wine, booze, and such--is more a dream than a reality.

But like I said....interesting.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 12:45 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I've forwarded it to my son the violinist. I'll try to post back his thoughts.
0 Replies
 
Ragman
 
  4  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 12:48 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Sorry, but I couldn't participate as I'm into non-violins.
Diane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 07:42 pm
@Ragman,
Oh groan...
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 07:45 pm
@Diane,
<deep bow>

(oh my, unintended puh...bow)
0 Replies
 
Ceili
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Jan, 2012 07:49 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I've done the same tests on the oh so sure they've got it right. Funnily enough, most of these same people can't tell if there is booze in a rum/rye and coke, after a few either. I used to give the jerks who continually drove home drunk a shot of water in their highballs, just to shut them up. Worked like a charm and they never suspected a thing.

I actually preferred the first clip, but I kinda like fiddle music better anyhow..
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 09:59 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
Several of the tests I was given by professionals indicated that I had better than "perfect pitch." They told me I test "Absolute Pitch" which is stronger.

I was tested beginning when I was five years old and until I was fifteen. I was one of those piano players at age five who could play music I heard, identifying notes played behind my back, recalling notes several minutes later, etc. etc.

Unfortunately, I was considered to be an unusual piano player at age five. So the experts insisted that I should be taught to read music instead of playing by sound. I hated note music reading and I lost interest in playing beyond age 13. At age 15, I still had my Absolute pitch ability used in singing, but my love of piano playing was gone. I learned to play a trumpet.

Just for fun, you may want to test your pitch ability on this test I found:
http://www.acoustics.org/press/157th/deutsch3.htm

More information about absolute pitch:
http://perfectpitch.ucsf.edu/

BBB

BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 10:38 am
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
I forgot to add another musical instrument I learned, the Marimba.

http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/textm/Marimba.html

BBB
Ragman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 4 Jan, 2012 12:11 pm
@BumbleBeeBoogie,
thanks for chiming in!
0 Replies
 
 

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