If a man masturbates when his wife menstruates...

I see someone added the tag "humor - possibly" to the thread. That's appropriate. I am not being entirely serious in the way I ask the question. I asked some people about this, and their reluctance to accept the imagery the question summons was rather funny.

But there is a serious question in here.
It is not illegal to masturbate, and it is not illegal for women to have their period. That would be ridiculous.

But when sperm and egg are combined, discarding it becomes a much more controversial issue. Apart, discarding sperm or eggs is fine. No one reacts to that.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

It is not illegal to masturbate, and it is not illegal for women to have their period. That would be ridiculous.

But when sperm and egg are combined, discarding it becomes a much more controversial issue. Apart, discarding sperm or eggs is fine. No one reacts to that.

Trying to reply with something original… I’d say that when the sperm and ovum unite that is when a previously invisible sentient being’s actions become visible to others. That is not the case when sperm and ovum do not unite.

This unique state-of-affairs is precious and that's why it needs to be protected.

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Two points:
I once read that the evolutionary function of masturbation is that it raises the sperm count of the masturbator. If that's so, masturbation has no connection with abortion. Indeed, it should be advocated by prolifers.

When a woman masturbates (instead of having sex) does that have any implications of abortion?

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When a seed falls to the ground, it does not a plant make..

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

Two points:
I once read that the evolutionary function of masturbation is that it raises the sperm count of the masturbator. If that's so, masturbation has no connection with abortion. Indeed, it should be advocated by prolifers.

Any proof of this? It sounds like a useful excuse to justify masturbation.

JLNobody wrote:

When a woman masturbates (instead of having sex) does that have any implications of abortion?

Can't see how unless there is a study that shows it leads to a higher rate of miscarriage. Again, any proof?

As an aside on the subject of masturbation, it would prevent deeper levels of meditation (as separate actions, of course). One reason would be due to the implicit enforcement of the belief in a fictional self that would accompany one during meditation.

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@igm,

igm wrote:

I’d say that when the sperm and ovum unite that is when a previously invisible sentient being’s actions become visible to others.

( taking this statement VERY literally... )

no actually. They are still microscopic and with out technology no one would know it even existed even in that fresh of a state..

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@shewolfnm,

You're correct of course. What I should have said is: ...will eventually become visible to others i.e. conception is the cause of a unique being's actions becoming visible to others. A potential that was invisible becomes visible and can share a life's actions with others whilst still having an invisible internal life as well.

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@JLNobody,

I have read the same thing. Kind of makes sense, since everything we do with our bodies make us more capable of doing it with training.

By the way, "the masturbator" sparked some very childish impulse in me, and now I'm saying the word loud and giggling. Smile

But my comparison to abortion wasn't so much focused on the act of masturbation itself, but more on the fact that when a man has orgasm he discards material that could potentially be a human being.
The woman does the same when she has her period.
Neither women's menstruation or men's masturbation is considered immoral.
But if the sperm and the egg are combined, and then the material is discarded, that is something many consider an immoral act, even murder.

I guess it comes down to the age old question that we've recycled for years. When does the lump of cells become a human being?

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@Cyracuz,

I say the word softly with quiet reverence. I remember when... Cool

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@Cyracuz,

Of course, Nature necessates that every time we ejaculate during sex countless sperms die--only one or a very few have touchdowns. How does that jibe with the claim that it is a form of abortion to spill one's seed upon the whatever?

1 Reply

@JLNobody,

Yes, that doesn't precisely support the claim.

Traditionally, christianity has made people think that masturbation is sinful.
That a woman is dirty or evil during her period is another old religious theme.
The outcry against abortion is predominantly religiously motivated.

Most people believe it is wrong to kill. Most also believe that if you have the chance to save a life and do nothing, that is only slightly less wrong. Particular circumstances aside.
If terminating the development of a joining of cells that can potentially become a human being is wrong, shouldn't it also be wrong to stand by and let the opportunity to create a human being pass by?

Doing nothing when you don't intend to get pregnant is fine.
Doing something when you didn't intend to get pregnant, but did, is supposed to be wrong, according to some. Either way, some cells didn't become a human being.

It may be that the same arguments that go against abortion also go against ovulating. I am wondering if the abortion controversy may be a form of religious oppression..

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

I am wondering if the abortion controversy may be a form of religious oppression..

http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/abortion_and_suicide.asp
Although pregnancy weakens suicidal impulses, there is strong evidence that abortion dramatically increases the risk of suicide. According to a 1986 study by researchers at the University of Minnesota, a teenage girl is 10 times more likely to attempt suicide if she has had an abortion in the last six months than is a comparable teenage girl who has not had an abortion.(2) Other studies have found similar statistical significance between a history of abortion and suicide attempts among adults. Thus, the actual data suggests that abortion is far more likely to drive an unstable woman to suicide than is pregnancy and childbirth.

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@igm,

There is no medical reason for increased suicide wishes in relation to abortion. I would think the social condemnation of abortion, which is a remnant of religious, self-righteous piety, was what made some want to commit suicide.
These are studies from over 20 years ago, back when religious dogma had a lot more authority than today.
If you find a study on abortion and suicide from the last few years I suspect the numbers are different.

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What difference does it make if the wife is menstruating or not?

What if he maturbated while she was ovulating?

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@chai2,

I think this joker is one of those guys who doesn't understand that menstruation takes place because of and after ovulation.

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@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

There is no medical reason for increased suicide wishes in relation to abortion. I would think the social condemnation of abortion, which is a remnant of religious, self-righteous piety, was what made some want to commit suicide.

Maternal instinct and the universal way mothers’ protect their young is a trait seen in animals. These innate instincts could be a reason for psychological harm that more often than the mean average leads to depression and suicide rates that are higher in this group than one would expect if it was only a medical procedure.

Even masturbation or periods could have a mild effect in this respect as it leads to 'a failure to reproduce' and then maybe a subconscious negative effect (feeling) is experienced later, due to the primal instinct reproduce.This is related to Post-coital tristesse (depression) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-coital_tristesse .

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Leaving aside the lamentable ignorance of female reproductive physiology shown in this thread, it has a gender bias to the effect that the actions of a man are significant morally, but those of woman are not; additionally, it reeks of the obsessived sexual repression at the heart of christianity. Women in their physiological prime ovulate every 29 days (roughly) which means that billions upon billions of eggs are shed by women every year which were never fertilized. A woman ovulates whether or not she is sexually active, whether or not there is any possibility of the fertilization of the egg. Yet the author is only concerned with the actions of the male, only concerned with his sperm. There is, though, a certain ironic, poetic justice in the contemplation of that fault of the thesis.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

Leaving aside the lamentable ignorance of female reproductive physiology shown in this thread

I don't know what gave you that impression.
A woman has on average around 400 eggs. Letting them all pass is no moral issue, and it is no moral issue for a man to "waste" sperm. But as soon as the two are joined, it becomes a moral issue to interrupt the development.
The claim in I'm making is that this moral issue is an extension of the religiously motivated objection to masturbation.

Your assumptions about the author's concerns are somewhat wrong. There's no gender bias intended, and I'm asking if the "obsessived sexual repression at the heart of christianity" is part of the reason abortion is such a controversy.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Leaving aside the lamentable ignorance of female reproductive physiology shown in this thread

I don't know what gave you that impression.
A woman has on average around 400 eggs. Letting them all pass is no moral issue, and it is no moral issue for a man to "waste" sperm.

You don't know what gave the impression that you're ignorant of the female reproductive physiology shown in this thread?

How about the fact that if a woman is having her period she ovulated 2 weeks prior to menstruation?

She was quite fertile 2 weeks before she started to bleed, and most likely not fertile when her period started.

Here Slick, let me spell it out for ya:

http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/ATLAS_EN/html/the_menstrual_cycle.html

1. Preparing for Ovulation

When the menstrual flow comes to a halt, the uterine lining is very thin. However, it slowly begins to thicken under the influence of estrogen, a hormone that is produced by the ovaries and released into the bloodstream. The rising estrogen level also stimulates the growth of some of the Graafian follicles that encase the immature ova. Eventually, only one of these follicles completes its growth, while the others recede. After .approximately two weeks, one follicle, ruptures and releases the ovum. This release is known as ovulation. At the time of ovulation, the uterine lining has thickened considerably and is close to becoming ready for a possible implantation.

An ovulation occurs about 14 days before the beginning of the next menstruation. That is to say, if the ovum is not fertilized and implanted, the uterine lining will break down and will be discharged two weeks later. Thus, counting backward, in a menstrual cycle of 28 days, ovulation occurs on the 14th day; in a cycle of 35 days, it occurs on the 21st day. In other words, while the time period between ovulation and next menstruation is relatively constant, that between menstruation and next ovulation can vary considerably. Couples who practice the rhythm method of contraception have to keep this fact well in mind. (See also "Contraception.")

2. Preparing for Implantation
Shortly before ovulation, the follicle that encases the ovum begins to produce a new hormone called progesterone. This production increases dramatically after ovulation when the ruptured follicle is transformed into a "yellow body" (corpus luteum). In addition to progesterone, which plays an important part in the final preparation of the uterine lining, the yellow body also continues the production of estrogen. Under the influence of this hormonal stimulation, the lining of the uterus soon achieves its greatest thickness and receptivity for implantation.

After its release from the ovary, the ovum enters the nearest Fallopian tube and begins traveling toward the uterus. Within a few hours, it undergoes its final maturation and becomes ready for fertilization. (For details, see "Conception.") After its fertilization, the ovum develops into a cell cluster which continues its journey through the Fallopian tube to the uterus, where it arrives about three days later. Finally, after another three to four days, it begins to implant in the nourishing uterine lining, thus starting pregnancy.

A pregnancy helps to sustain the yellow body and its production of estrogen and progesterone. As a result, no new ovulation occurs, and the uterine lining does not deteriorate. In other words, in case of a pregnancy, the menstrual cycle is suspended at this point and does not enter the third phase described.

3. Menstruation
A fertilization is possible only within the first 24 hours after ovulation. If the ovum does not encounter any sperm cells during this time, it simply dies and disintegrates. Obviously, in this case there is no implantation either. As a result, the thick special lining of the uterus is not needed, but soon begins to break down and slough off. The waste material, consisting mainly of mucus, lining tissue, and variable amounts of blood, is discharged through the vagina. This discharge is known as the monthly bleeding or menstruation (from Latin mensis, month). It usually lasts between 3 and 5 days. In popular language, these days are also sometimes referred to simply as the "period." The first day of menstruation is usually considered the first day of the entire menstrual cycle.

1 Reply

If a man masturbates when his wife menstruates...

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