Do emotions require linguistic expression for their actuality?

@Eorl,

Tho we do not speak the languages of animals,
it is not wise for us to assume that no such languages exist.

In some cases, it is more than obvious
thay thay communicate among themselves.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Quote:

Without the ability to speak English??

No, to put feelings into a word of any sort of language.

Quote:

That depends on how u define it.
I can remember my 3rd Birthday and remember time leading up to it.

I don't think turning 3 counts as being an infant. And you obviously know what I mean when I say a time before memories of feelings.

Quote:

"Ambiguous"??????? Y????

'Knowing' the thoughts of an infant would be 'ambigous' especially what it thinks things are. ie emotions...

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@Procrustes,

DAVID wrote:

Without the ability to speak English??

Procrustes wrote:

No, to put feelings into a word of any sort of language.

DAVID wrote:

That depends on how u define it.
I can remember my 3rd Birthday and remember time leading up to it.

Procrustes wrote:

I don't think turning 3 counts as being an infant. And you obviously know
what I mean when I say a time before memories of feelings.

Yes; I remember u asking:

Procrustes wrote:

Can anyone remember the time before one had memories or language?

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@OmSigDAVID,

It is a fallacious argument to jump to the conclusion that not having a clear recall on young age has anything to do with emotions and language not being deeply developed...and if proposing the hypothesis that such was the case one would need to present a detailed account on the process...there is nothing else to say until that much is settled on this regard...it even might well be that the instances and causes that regulate the development of memory are loosely the same that regulate the development of language and other superior complex functions in a manner of speaking but still the argument does n´t follow from there...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

It seems I'm alluding to the process of what makes infantile memory so hard to remember. In which case, a learned 'language' seems to be absent during that infancy period. (Although at a certain time babies start to do baby talk) I'm not trying to draw conclusions on the matter nor connect the dots. But in the context of the question, emotions are still prevalent in infants and all I was merely trying to get across was the comparison between how an adult would process emotions compared to an infant that lacked a developed language system.

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@Procrustes,

To state the obvious, that is , that there are correlations between organized thoughts language and the way you perceive and eventually to an extent "process" emotions is a long way from the initial OP don´t you think ?

Besides, on close inspection language may well be a new factor on how emotions are conveyed, even organized, but I seriously doubt it has a significant roll on how emotions are processed which is a quite different claim...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

I thought the OP was about the correlation between language and emotion? How is what we've been talking about a stretch from that?

The process of emotions (the genuine type), IMO, would seem innate; neither having to do with language at all. R-complex kind of stuff...

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@Procrustes,

Procrustes wrote:

The process of emotions (the genuine type), IMO, would seem innate;
neither having to do with language at all.

R-complex kind of stuff...

WHAT does R mean ?????

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@OmSigDAVID,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain

It stands for 'reptilian'...

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@Fil Albuquerque,

...language is a medium for rational and emotional communication not the message which is the true cause for any kind of response in the first place, that distinction is important...second the level of organization of a response is not directly and solely dependent in this or that particular medium, mainly because of the suplective holistic integration of cognitive brain functions, or if you want, there are other "languages" that can equally have the same influence on the level of organization you display emotionally...obviously these mediums like the visual, who actually represents 80% of your cognitive informational activity have an impact probably not so much on the intensity of emotions themselves and what is emoted but on the cognitive perception you build on emotions and upon emotions ...

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@Procrustes,

Procrustes wrote:

I thought the OP was about the correlation between language and emotion? How is what we've been talking about a stretch from that?

The process of emotions (the genuine type), IMO, would seem innate; neither having to do with language at all. R-complex kind of stuff...

No its not about a simple correlation, but a necessary cause...
Can you distinguish ?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

...more, linguistic cognitive acuity and capacity says nothing on emotions themselves as emotions but rather is responsible for the adequacy of a given response, that is, provides a more or less contextualized reciprocity between the emotional response and the message perceived who reactively engaged such response...

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@Procrustes,

Procrustes wrote:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triune_brain

It stands for 'reptilian'...

Thank u.

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@The Pentacle Queen,

Quote:

That's really interesting G H. Is it just speculation or did you read a study somewhere?

That animals have emotions? Or that emotions might be more complex in animals?

The former is as sound as ascribing emotions to other humans besides oneself. People who have spent their entire lives living in the city without ever even owning pets will simply have to watch films by naturalists like Joe Hutto ("My Life As a Turkey") to grasp that many animals not only possess emotions but sometimes a larger collection of communication "signals" than we would initially imagine.

And if you meant the latter instead, the possibility -- then the auxiliary verb "might" along with the speculative nature of this topic itself, and some of the cross-posted responses here being from the philosophy forum, surely indicates that it wasn't reference to a science study. I've demonstrated many a time that I have no inhibitions whatsoever about posting links to such news articles in a philosophy forum, when one is available. Smile

When it comes to "how animals think" (not as the external appearance of neural processes but the internal appearances the subject itself is familiar with) a certain scientist with autism is the only one I've come across venturing anything -- i.e., the theory that sighted animals, at least, think via the same medium which she claims she does (images from memory). She got trounced from some quarters for proposing even that degree of and direction for progress, so the potential for consideration and study of emotions as another possibility for animal thought might as well be as distant as the nearest star.

1 Reply

Quote:

Do emotions require linguistic expression for their actuality?

No!

Here's the proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT7_IZPHHb0

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Do emotions require linguistic expression for their actuality?

No!

Here's the proof:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT7_IZPHHb0

Playing devil's advocate here:
But that experience isn't detached from language; the narrative in your head doesn't stop entirely when listening to music.

1 Reply

@G H,

G H wrote:

Quote:
That's really interesting G H. Is it just speculation or did you read a study somewhere?

That animals have emotions? Or that emotions might be more complex in animals?

The former is as sound as ascribing emotions to other humans besides oneself. People who have spent their entire lives living in the city without ever even owning pets will simply have to watch films by naturalists like Joe Hutto ("My Life As a Turkey") to grasp that many animals not only possess emotions but sometimes a larger collection of communication "signals" than we would initially imagine.

And if you meant the latter instead, the possibility -- then the auxiliary verb "might" along with the speculative nature of this topic itself, and some of the cross-posted responses here being from the philosophy forum, surely indicates that it wasn't reference to a science study. I've demonstrated many a time that I have no inhibitions whatsoever about posting links to such news articles in a philosophy forum, when one is available.

When it comes to "how animals think" (not as the external appearance of neural processes but the internal appearances the subject itself is familiar with) a certain scientist with autism is the only one I've come across venturing anything -- i.e., the theory that sighted animals, at least, think via the same medium which she claims she does (images from memory). She got trounced from some quarters for proposing even that degree of and direction for progress, so the potential for consideration and study of emotions as another possibility for animal thought might as well be as distant as the nearest star.

The latter, and also emotions becoming the meaning itself. Thanks, interesting.

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@The Pentacle Queen,

Perhaps our experiences are different, PQ, but one of the reasons why I'm so fond of instrumental music is that it inspires "unarticulated feeling". As a musician I constantly practice expressing emotions through music; through quality of tone, choice of notes and timing. There is no linguistic narrative involved.

Another example is perhaps easier to associate with for non-musicians.
Have you ever had an experience that had such an emotional impact on you that you later felt the desire to record it? Have you then experienced the frustration of not being able to convey the gravity of that moment with words?

If an emotion isn't actual until it is expressed in language, then what is it that inspires writers to keep writing, what is it that makes a poet sit for hours chewing the pencil without writing a single word?

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@Cyracuz,

Yeah, no I do have those experiences, and in some ways I'm just trying to be provocative here, but I do find a layer of commentary springs from the notes of a Schumann symphony or whatever a lot of the time. Sometimes analysis, but not always; most of the time ideas. I find it hard to be without words, although that doesn't mean that the emotional intensity of music is absent or weakened when words are present. Except maybe when I'm performing, that's a little different. I went to a conference on music and transcendence today. How relevant.

1 Reply

@The Pentacle Queen,

It seems to me that a lot of people believe that thought process is a matter of words, that without words we would have no thought process.

3 Replies

Do emotions require linguistic expression for their actuality?

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