57
   

Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

 
 
Helios
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 07:10 am
@Frank Apisa,
I think if people had more love, there wouldn't be any evil institutions, nor those who have nefarious intentions against others.
If Jesus taught everyone to love, even their enemies then isn't he directly saying that slavery is to be looked down upon. If everyone loved as Jesus told them to love, would there be "enemies," would there be war, would there be slavery?
Even Paul somewhere writes love each other in brotherly love.

If you had a slave (well not you, but say someone who does at some point in history), and you loved the slave as Jesus told you, wouldn't you set him free?
aspvenom
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:02 am
@Setanta,
Maybe absurd, but it's far more comforting to read than these incest and pedo threads that creeps up in the new post section.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:06 am
@spendius,
The problem you are having is not the undermining of Christian Teaching regarding slavery, it is that the Christian Teaching of slavery doesn't appear to especially Christian.

Both Augustine and Aquinas tried slice and dice the definition you seek, both of them speaking against "unjust" slavery. I guess having those Muslim prisoners to row the Papal barges was too convenient to be unjust, so we had the Christian Church sanction to enslave others up until.... .

Well, up until the present day, if you want to stick to using the Scriptures, such as they are.

Humanists and atheists, apparently without the assistance of supernatural power, came to the conclusion that activities such as slavery, in any form, were immoral and inhuman.

Joe(fancy that)Nation
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:29 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
It is dicey enough to discuss what he is said to have said, it is the height of absurdity to focus on what one claims he did not say.


If anyone should know about "the height of absurdity" it is you, Setanta...so I thank you for your brilliant observations.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:29 am
@spendius,
You too, Spendius. Thanks for the comments.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:31 am
@Helios,
Quote:
If Jesus taught everyone to love, even their enemies then isn't he directly saying that slavery is to be looked down upon.


Absolutely, positively NOT. If he were directly saying anything negative about slavery...it would have to be that slavery is wrong or immoral.

Of course, maybe slavery is not wrong or immoral. The god Jesus worshiped did not consider it wrong or immoral.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:40 am
@Frank Apisa,
Translation, you cannot either answer or tolerate criticism, so you indulge in childish insult. How petty and puerile you are Frank. Which is not a surprise at this poinot.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 08:56 am
@Joe Nation,
The problem you are having Joe is that you coyly, possibly naively, think there is nothing in back of the proposition being debated. I can't see any reason why anybody would devote their time to the matter of slavery 2,100 years ago other than seeking to discredit Christian teaching because it seeks to limit their free expressions in the pantsdown positions.

It's the unspoken motive, the sub-text, of this and other threads which fondly believes that such issues are sufficient to sweep Christianity into the garbage whilst avoiding the rather obvious question of alternatives.

Jibes about "supernatural power" allow a neat escape from dealing with the pragmatism which, from an atheist perspective, must, yes must, be in back of such a power.

What's up with your side is its lack of confidence in its own philosophy if one may call it such.

Provide us with an atheist and humanist agenda on the sexual question and I might take you seriously. Applied, of course, to 310 million Americans rather than to the personal preoccupations.

Religion is nothing if not a collective program.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:11 am
@Joe Nation,
Joe Nation wrote:
Humanists and atheists, apparently without the assistance of supernatural power,
came to the conclusion that activities such as slavery, in any form, were immoral and inhuman.

Joe(fancy that)Nation
The communists were atheists
and thay made a practice of universal slavery.





David
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:16 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
Religion is nothing if not a collective program.
I dispute that. I can start a religion for myself tomorrow
and be its Pope, with no followers, keeping it secret.





David
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:18 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Leaving aside the childish, polemical nature of that claim, what evidence do you have that they practiced slavery because they were atheists?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:27 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Leaving aside the childish, polemical nature of that claim,
Notice how he gets his jollies from defense of his beloved communism.


Setanta wrote:
what evidence do you have that they practiced slavery because they were atheists?
None; I have not asserted any causal relationship from atheism.
Thay were slavers because thay were communists.
If thay had decided to worship Karl Marx & Fred Engles,
thay 'd have continued with universal slavery anyway.





David
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:42 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Notice how David gets his jollies by asserting that anyone who is not a gun-toting, extreme right-wing troglodyge loves communism.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:44 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
Translation, you cannot either answer or tolerate criticism, so you indulge in childish insult. How petty and puerile you are Frank. Which is not a surprise at this poinot.


If you only knew how laughable it is for you to be talking about childish insults, Setanta, your belly would hurt from the laughter.

Go pout somewhere.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:45 am
By the way, in response to Joe, who said that humanists and atheist eschew slavery, you asserted first (without evidence) that communists are atheists, second (again without evidence) that they practiced slavery. Of couse, around here, it's a commonplace that people just make **** up as they go along, conditioned by their polemical prejudices.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:52 am
@Setanta,
ADMIT u were French kissing your Uncle Joe Stalin.
Go on -- admit it !
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 09:56 am
@Frank Apisa,
I'll post right here. I'm no christian, so i don't turn the other cheek. If you insult me, you'll get it back in spades.

This is a typical Frank exercise in christian-bating. Despite your silly claims of moral and intellectual superiority because of your agnosticism, you cannot refrain from attempting to jerk the christian chain. But your rhetorical skills are so paltry, that contemplating what passes for logic at your house makes me laugh until my belly hurts.

So, for example, let's examine your witless signature line:

Quote:
To acknowledge what you do not know – is a display of strength. To pretend you know what you truly don’t [sic] – is a display of weakness.


If you are referring to atheists and theists, who you always rather stupidly lump together as two sides of one coin, then this is, or ought to be, embarrassingly idiotic. If the theist say there is a god, and you claim they are pretending to know what they truly don't, that could only be because you know that there is no god. Conversely, if an atheist says that there is no god, and you assert they are pretending to know what they don't know, that could only be because you know that there is a god. Intellectually, that choice bit of stupdity paints you into a rhetocical corner. That also doesn't surprise me, because logic and intelligent argument have never been your strong stuit. I expect that your response to this post will be more schoolyard insults, with no attempt to defend your position.

More specifically, in this thread, you inferentially assert that Jesus existed, and you inferentially claim to know that he never condemned slavery. So you are, by your own criterion, displaying weakness by pretending to know what you don't in fact know. Of course, you could prove me wrong by presenting iron-clad evidence that Jesus existed, and then by providing iron-clad evidence that you know he never condemned slavery. I'm not holding my breath.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 10:02 am
@Setanta,
Quote:
I'm not holding my breath.


Too bad, Setanta. I hear you look better blue than you do red!
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 10:03 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
By the way, in response to Joe, who said that humanists and atheist eschew slavery,
you asserted first (without evidence) that communists are atheists,
Is that in DISPUTE??
We did not live thru the era of communist slavery???????
Must I prove that it gets dark at nite??? We don 't know the commies already??????



Setanta wrote:
second (again without evidence) that they practiced slavery.
U blow my mind; r u just trying to be tedious??
I have a lot of trouble in believing that u r actually that naive.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Sep, 2012 10:05 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I'm not holding my breath.
Frank Apisa wrote:
Too bad, Setanta. I hear you look better blue than you do red!
That guy ALWAYS looks Red to me.





David
0 Replies
 
 

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