24
   

What is greed?

 
 
Ragman
 
  2  
Sat 15 Oct, 2011 10:54 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
That's why I get frustrated that these protestors waste energy directing anger at Wall Street instead of their politicians (who often use the caricatures of Wall Street to curry favor with the main street and deflect from such anger at them in their roles).


Why should the Wall St protesters bother directing their anger at the politicians when it's these same politicians who are owned lock, stock and barrel by those interests that helped pay for and pave the way for their campaigns? The issues of campaign finance reform, wall-street regulation are interrelated -- at least it is in my mind. Follow the money trail!
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  2  
Sat 15 Oct, 2011 11:32 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
So how do you define greed? What makes someone greedy to you, as opposed to the healthy self-interest others operate with in the capitalist system.

To me, greed is not just a desire to enrich oneself, which I have no problem with. It also implies getting rich at other people's expense, or an inability to defer gratification. (Incidentally, the latter is what "greedy" means in informatics. Computer scientists will call an algorithm "greedy" if it hogs every immediate opportunity for gain, even if waiting a little could bring even greater gain later.) There is also a psychological dimension to greed: Many people do well for themselves. But only greedy people are motivated by compulsion to strive for this, as opposed to than reason.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Sat 15 Oct, 2011 11:34 pm
@Ragman,
Quote:
I'm not sure if it's my communication or not. I'll try again...last shot.

No, you are perfectly clear. I understand what you are saying.
Workers, who had absolutely nothing to do with CEOs pronouncements about what is "good" for their companies, must wear the consequences of those pronouncements, even if the CEOs were completely wrong in their assessments.
While those CEOs are rewarded, or at least protected, from any serious consequences.

But then, the CEO's brief is maximum profit for the company & its shareholders, nothing else ... ordinary workers (say nothing of those who depend on them for their support) are deemed to be irrelevant to that grand scheme. Mere flotsum & jetsam in the more important business of making profit, whatever it takes.
Those are the current "rules" & the expectations that CEOs are operating under.

In my opinion, the current "rules" are corrupt, or at the very least, lack any semblance of empathy, fairness or morality to the workers who, all too often, become the innocent victims of those rules.

It does not surprise me in the least that people (all over the world) are now protesting about the consequences of such a system of "doing business".
What the Wall Street protesters & others are demanding is that their lives be included in the equation. That their lives matter.
And I agree with them .
100%



Ragman
 
  2  
Sat 15 Oct, 2011 11:49 pm
@msolga,
Thank you, MsO ... for taking the time to grasp what I was writing and explain it better.

Bottom line ..these workers...who are also an important cog in wheel of economy and corporations are being disposed of and alarming rate..when CEOs and CFOs misfire or misdirect the plans of major corporations. Many times these displaced workers have a very tough time finding a new job, whereas the CEOs may find it less difficult resttling.

Complicating things further is when these same individuals subsequently can't pay their mortgages and then lose their homes due to more greed and corporate malfeasance.

Now the need for understanding of greed and its dangers to society become greater and more of a threat than ever.
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 01:53 am

Greed makes the world go 'round.

( the economic world )
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -2  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 01:54 am

I love greed. We need more greed in the world.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 12:19 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

I guess Germany and Japan have shown that if you want your nation to prosper go to war with the U.S. but be sure to lose.

The fact that Britain (also listed on the same statistical table) did the same earlier in U.S. history escaped your eagle-eyed historical apercu - but no matter.

If you knew no more about mining that Mark Twain's definition of a mine ("a hole in the ground with a liar standing next to it") would you still be yelling for REGULATION! (sic) in that industry? You evidently know less about finance than Twain knew about mines, so how do you justify your stridency?
Setanta
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 01:26 pm
http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/10/monty-burns-1-percent.jpg
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 02:48 pm
@Ragman,
Workers are indeed an important cog in the wheel of the economy, and successful corporate leaders recognize this, but too often; too many workers simultaneously inflate and dismiss their importance and power in an (intentional or subconscious) effort to maximize their rewards and minimize their responsibilities

Often workers do not get to participate in the decision making that on occasion seriously impacts their status in a negative manner, but that doesn’t mean that they are always ignorant of the decisions and their potential impact or that they are not in different ways participating in the behavior that is a result of the decision.

They also don't participate in all of the decisions that impact their status in a positive fashion either, and I doubt too many complain that they weren't part of the decision that led to this year's bonuses being paid at 110% of target.

I agree that the negative impact of a failed business plan is, in general, proportionately more powerful to the effected workers than the "C" level executives. The mid-level manager who loses her job is likely to receive a much less generous severance package than one of the senior executives.

A 48 year old CEO of a large corporation who "retires" in lieu of being fired may not actually have an easier time resurfacing than the 48 year old mid-level manager, but more significantly will most likely not have to resurface. It's likely that the CEO will be able to comfortably retire without missing a beat, whereas the mid-level manager will almost certainly need to find another job.

I'm sure this will sound harsh, and confirm a few opinions, but so what?

Do you really expect for there to be equal outcomes for everyone in life?

While it is entirely possible that a mid-level manager in a large company could do a better job than the current CEO, it is highly unlikely and that if both are the same age but at greatly different levels of the organization, there is an identifiable reason, and far more times than not it will have to do with skills, ability and achievement.

There are plenty of dolts sitting at the CEO's desk in their company, but the vast majority of them have progressed to that height by succeeding in a series of increasingly responsible positions. Chances are pretty good that a year ago the CEO and the mid-level manager were not occupying side by side cubicles, and playing the same roles in the company, when the current CEO’s name was drawn from a hat and he was immediately elevated to the top corporate position.

It is simply not the case that all, or even most, “C” level executives fiddle while their corporate Rome’s are burning. I’ll agree that it happens more than it should, but we can say the same about workers, politicians, and priests etc. as respects behaviors in which they should not engage.

While we may not on agree on effectiveness of the free market’s ability to self-regulate, it would be silly to suggest the system is not at all self-regulating. Poorly run corporations will not survive for long without external intervention which is a good reason to eliminate or drastically reduce corporate welfare that is a political device for both parties.

Unfortunately, when a corporation fails there is collateral damage in the sense that it is not only those who have directly caused the failure who pay a price and, as you point out, sometimes those directly at fault don’t end up paying much of a price at all.

I would argue though that it is disingenuous or simply fanciful to assert that only the senior executives of a failed corporation are at fault. Theoretically, an organization does not require a group of executives to assure high levels of product quality and customer satisfaction. The CEO may have taken her eyes off of those two balls but it doesn’t mean the workers must as well.

When “C” level executives promote or ignore unethical behavior it doesn’t mean that all of the employees must engage in it, and I would argue that if you are working for a company where such unethical behavior abounds, you have an obligation to blow your whistle. If you don’t have the courage to call out the problem you should have the smarts to know that eventually it will catch up with the company and that you need to find a new home before then.

Moreover, if you choose to ride it out because you are benefiting (albeit not to the extent of the “C” level execs) from the unethical behavior, you are part of the corruption, and are displaying the greed in your own nature.

Corporate employees need not consider themselves to be driftwood forced to float along with whatever corporate currents exist, and simply because they choose to doesn’t entitle them to innocent victim status when disaster strikes.

No one can make you work for XYZ Corporation and if you happen to, you certainly have the right to leave whenever you want. It’s unusual for a corporation to fail because of unethical practices or extreme incompetence without most of the employees knowing something has been going wrong for a while.

Of course it’s not an easy thing to shed light on unethical behaviors or even jump a sinking ship, but again…so what?


0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 03:44 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/2011/10/monty-burns-1-percent.jpg
Do we have any more of those Neutron Bombs around ?
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 10:03 pm

the accumulation of financial wealth for the sake of financial wealth , only
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  2  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 10:24 pm

http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/imagecache/218/330/mritems/Images/2011/10/16/2011101674650320734_20.jpg

I think greed is a symptom of fear




north
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 10:33 pm
@Endymion,
Endymion wrote:


http://english.aljazeera.net/mritems/imagecache/218/330/mritems/Images/2011/10/16/2011101674650320734_20.jpg

I think greed is a symptom of fear



if true , what is basis of this fear ?
kuvasz
 
  2  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 11:06 pm
@High Seas,
Dust off your ancient Greek. The best definition I have seen for "greed" is found in Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics; where he uses the term pleonexia denoted as an excess desire to get more, which violates canons of distributive fairness within self-conscious communities.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Sun 16 Oct, 2011 11:24 pm
@north,

I'll have to come back – need to get some sleep (morning here)
But I suppose it depends on what kind of greed you're talking about.

A pig might be greedy because it's afraid that if it doesn't eat fast enough at the trough it might miss out on dinner.

A man in a life-boat might try to hog all the supplies because he thinks it will give him a better chance of survival – he fears death so much, he's willing to sacrifice the lives of others

Anyway – time to sleep
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  -1  
Mon 17 Oct, 2011 07:26 am

We need MORE GREED in America.

I try to do MY part.





David
Thomas
 
  2  
Mon 17 Oct, 2011 09:17 am
@north,
north wrote:
if true , what is basis of this fear ?

Fear can may a different basis for different individuals, or it may have no basis at all. Fear needs no basis.
0 Replies
 
Endymion
 
  1  
Mon 17 Oct, 2011 09:21 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Well, David - whatever you're doing to 'do your part' is certainly working.

More children now live in poverty in the US (16.4 million) than at any time since 1962.

Between 2005 and 2009, the household wealth of a typical black family dropped off a cliff, plunging by a whopping 53 per cent; for a typical Hispanic family, it was even worse, at 66 per cent. For white middle-class households, losses on average totalled “only” 16 per cent.

In 2009, the median wealth for a white family was $113,149, for a black family $5,677, and for a Hispanic family $6,325.

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/10/20111010113323878255.html

How much more will you take from the poor, in your own country?

No wonder the kids dying in East Africa don't have a hope of touching your conscience...


One in seven will go hungry on World Food Day

Enough crops can be grown to feed the whole planet, yet almost a billion people face starvation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/they-live-in-a-world-of-plenty-but-one-in-seven-will-go-hungry-today-2371365.html

Quote:
There's enough on this planet for everyone's needs but not for everyone's greed.
~ Mohandas Gandhi
JLNobody
 
  2  
Mon 17 Oct, 2011 09:42 am
There's a very dark side of greed that we don't notice enough: it consists not only in getting more than you need but in taking pleasure when others have less than they need.
igm
 
  1  
Mon 17 Oct, 2011 10:07 am
@Endymion,
Endymion wrote:

Quote:
There's enough on this planet for everyone's needs but not for everyone's greed.
~ Mohandas Gandhi


Obvious but... so true!
0 Replies
 
 

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