When is it socially acceptable to hit a woman?

Bill you were doing so good.... and then the double standard!

What makes a woman more worthy of your compassion and understanding?


Perfect, but if you hit a male you would also hurt him as well. :wink:


Can't say I have Ceili..

And to address the rape issue, this is a black and white area, no means no. Simple as that.

Oh my How does a person answer this question? For me...it touches home in a big way. Some of your comments I have to agree with....others turned my stomach inside out.

I had a boyfriend that had a sick obsession with me that he called "love". He said he couldn't live without me. He said he never loved someone as much as he did me. I didn't understand what was going on. I just knew he was much too jealous. He controlled me. Yes, I let him. (shame on me) But sometimes in our youth we lack the wisdom to see clearly what is before us. I truely was "stupid".....but now I am much wiser and would NEVER let it happen to me again. He isolated me from my friends. And I let him do all these things to me.....even though I knew they were wrong. And by the way....I am 5'2 and 105 pounds. He is 6 foot and 200 pounds, with a degree in martial arts.

Is it ok for a man to hit a women in defense? I'm sorry....but I have to say no. I think a true man would walk away from her. Just as Bill said.

You see.......I was one of those women that got beat up for hitting a man first. My jealous b/f just pushed me too hard one day. And I slapped him across the face for calling me a whore. Telling me I would screw anything....even his own father, whom I had just finished talking to. He didn't want me talking to any man. If I am with someone......I am totally devoted. He just couldn't see how much I loved him.

The next thing I knew.....he backhanded me across my left temple. Hit me hard enough it lifted me off the floor...and threw me backwards into a wall about 7 or 8 feet. I hit the wall.....slid down it ...onto the floor. I couldn't see anything. Everything was yellow, with black spots. He came over to me and put his hands on me.....and I was scared. I tried to push him away. He got angry with me for doing that. He picked me up and threw me across the floor. Jumped on top of me and began to beat me with his fists. In the face.....in the stomach.....the chest. Everywhere he could reach. One hit after the other. I tried to curl up into a ball so I could break the forces of his hits. Eventually.....he stopped. He told me later that he held back....that he could have killed me easily. So I guess I was supposed to thank him for that, huh?

There is much more to the story. In short.....he ended up costing me his child I was carrying inside of me, as I was 7 months pregnant.

When the "pains" of life sometimes seem too hard to bare......if you search hard enough and look far enough...and dig deep enough...you can make something good come out of something bad. And in my daughters name....that is what I have done. It's the only way I can survive this.

So now.....I help other females on a volunteer basis. For if I can help even just one female....out of a domestic violence situation....then my childs death is not in vain.

But I will have to live with it for the rest of my life. And it's hard. It's very hard. None of you know me. You might even wonder how I could let something like that happen.

There are just no easy answers. But there are many regrets.

~Brooke

Brooke, I'm very sorry. I can only imagine what it must be like to live through such a thing. However, I must commend you, because your mindset coming out of your troubles is absolutely inspirational.

Thank you for sharing your experience and I honestly do wish you the best of luck in your life. Stay strong!

I didn't know you before, Brooke, but I am sure as hell proud to know you now.

Events like you described would have broken a lesser person. But look at what a woman you've become! You give us all a good name.

If I were in the same room with you right now, I would give you a huge hug. Since I can't do that, this will have to suffice...

(((((((BROOKE))))))))

As early as I can remember; my mom taught me that violence is wrong. "Billy; only if a boy is trying to hurt you; it is okay to hit him back... but you never ever hit girls. And you never hit first... Unless you see a boy trying to hurt a girl... then you hit him with everything you got Billy."
When I got old enough to make up my own mind; I saw no need to change a word of this advice.
Brooke; your story is heart breaking. That guy should get "the chair". I generally date girls about your size and I can't imagine how a man could strike you. In my book; the size differential should make it a capital offense. An actual beating on the otherhand is simply horrifying. You are very courageous to talk about it... and I second Eva's HUG sentiment.
(((((((BROOKE)))))))

Bumps and scratches... :wink:

O'Bill, I teach mine the same lesson.

Brooke, I admire your strength.

You know the subject of turning the other cheek is so often misunderstood and used as a weapon against Christians who engage in wars.

As in the past the scripture of turning the other cheek is so appropriate here. This is what I have tried to state when in debates.

I would love to know how this argument occurred. She had her butt in the seat I guess and he did not. But somehow argument followed.

Give up the dang seat and shutup. I would love for people to understand the scripture. " But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right CHEEK, turn to him the other also."-Matt 5:39

Okay, let me clear up how this thing started. It's rush hour. It's crowded. The train stops, this old guy gets up and says to the little guy, "would you like to sit down?" because the guy was standing right in front of him. The big lady was behing the little guy, facing the other way, and after he looks to his left and right to see who else might want the seat, nobody else wants it, so he sits down, not noticing the big cow woman behind him. After a few seconds, she notices that he is in the seat, and decides that she wants that seat. She says something to him, which I didn't hear clearly, but I know it had the word f*ck in it. Picture yourself in a crowded subway, with all these people crammed in together watching this woman publicly berate you. I could see how this might make him want to stand (or in this case, sit) his ground. I'm sure he didn't expect her to be a violent wacko, and by the time he realized this, it was too late. It's easy to say he should have done this or that after the fact, but you don't know what you'd do until you're in that situation. I wish he would have clocked her. Yeah, turn the other cheek. Easy to say when you aren't in the situation.

Deb: I did a similiar study about ten years ago for a sociology project. Well, judges over here in England are just as entrenched in the rather perverse ideals that you've mentioned, but the French judges, in my opinion, are much more enlightened. I think that it's rather stupid, when we're meant to have equality before the law. One of the problems over here in England is that, due to the system, the judges are invariably geriatric and aristocratic in an overt way, and aren't exactly well adapted to judge things modernly... when they were kids, women were subservient. You've underlined the marital rape thing perfectly.

Occom: Exactly! I'm proud of your ideals on rape and on hitting women.

Kickycan, what you've said is rather repulsing to me. When someone exerts their will over another, that is an abomination. When that will is sexual, it is rape, and should be punished SEVERELY whatever the circumstances be. Whether it was rape within a marriage or on the street, it is awful. Rape is one of things that píss me off the most.

Brooke: Well, it takes quite a story to reduce me to overwhelming sadness and bitter obscenities, but that did it. That guy was a callous ******* coward for doing that to you, just a pusillanimous waste of space... but I am so, so proud to hear that it didn't break you, and what you've done.

Hugs[/color]

[/color]

Brooke, you're one of the unsung heroes. as we say in Oz, on ya!

Brooke
I am also in awe of your strength and I highly commend you.

{{{Huge hug}}}

k-can--Your elaboration has only cemented my opinion.
The obvious point is "how could little guy even overlook cowoman/" She was obviously frustrated because he immediately took the seat, and she, being volumetrically challenged, actually needed to sit.she had a medical reason.
The fact that she then started the abuzive language and then resorted to the violence is actually just a footnote.
He should have, once he sat down, immediately got up and re-offered the seat to the obese woman. of course the other sitters had the same option but thats not the facts as presented.
little guy could have extracted himself with honor basically intact , anywhere up to his getting pounded.
ill bet the others seated were saying
'go lady, this guys a schmuck not to offer you a seat"

there are certain trip points in a developing event that present opportunities to end any confrontation. Besides being a little guy, this guy was also really
dense.
the interesting point is that neither person gave a rats ass about the other.

Big group hug on Brooke. I see a lot of developing violence between partners whenever Were playing a CW gig with my boys.
One time some guy was wailing on his lady right in front of our little stage. I stopped the band and spoke in the mike to this guy that if he hits his woman one more time hes gonna be a recipint of our new 911 service. he was drunk but you could see the tracks of their love affair on her arms and face. He meekly complied (I never invite violence unless Im backed by my rhythm section and "shorty" our bass player)
my question as a guy is, is it really difficult to just drop the contolling guys and leave such violence? Or is there some bond that transcends the pain and humiliation.?
Im glad to see women pressing charges and going through with court actions .
now as for Big Bertha, she has her own hell to deal with, the little guy will heal and learn, she will, on the other hand, always be an ill mannered cow

To all you who have given me flack for my earlier comments:

I was just trying to point out that there are different degrees. There are different degrees of murder. Why is it different with rape?

farmerman, I see your point. He should have done what you said. But I don't see how the guy was dense at all. He just didn't judge the situation correctly. I guess you had to be there to see how quick it all happened.

Every time Im in N Y, I see decisions made in a 'New York Minute" so, we merely disagree on the twrminol;ogy to describe little guy. I say dense, you say poor judgement. OK I accept your term . Its less severe.

Murder is murder. How can there be different degrees of death? The differences in the degree of murder reflect on pre-meditation and accident. You can't really accidentally rape someone. And I don't think pre-meditation really makes anything worse in a rape situation.

I am playing devil's advocate here, but I do think my point is valid.

Okay, one more example. This is a little graphic, but I think it has to be for the purposes of my argument. A college girl and a college guy, out at a bar get drunk. They are BOTH impaired to the point where their judgment is waaay off. They are fooling around in a dorm room, she staggers over, unzips his pants, takes off all his clothes, laughing, and then does the same for herself. They are both naked now. She starts to give him oral sex. He is holding her head, gently moving it back and forth, and she is letting him, but at the last second, she decides she doesn't even know this guy, what is she doing, and decides she wants to stop. She tries to pull away, but he is about to come, and he's just as drunk as she is, remember. He holds her head there as he finishes, against her will. That's pretty bad, but is that rape in the same way as a guy who sits in the park with a knife, grabs a random girl, punches her in the head a few times, sticks a rag in her mouth and savagely takes her? Don't you think these two men should have different punishments?

First of all....thank you all so much for the hugs. Your compassion for a complete stranger says alot about each of you. Your kindness in your words....touched my heart. Big ((((HUGS)))) back. It has made me feel very humble before you.

I do have to say (as I don't want to mislead anyone) ....that there is much to my story you do not know....and I had to hit bottom hard..before I could stand up and find my way back. In other words......there are many things I did not handle well. And I credit everything that is good....to God.
Still.....there is a tremendous amount I handled poorly. My first attack by this man was not to be the last. The last did not come into focus till I lost my child. And losing my child was the thing that got me away from him. If it had not been for that....I might still be with him. Or dead.


As to the question...wondering why women don't leave. Is it really all that difficult? There is no easy answer here. There are many factors....but always one common denominator. That being...the fear factor. Alot of these guys are not abusive at all in the beginning. They wine you and dine you....and are nearly dreamlike in their actions towards you. Then once they have you where they want you...things slowly start to change.

Once the abuse starts.....you would think it would be easy for a woman to just up and end it right then and there. But you have to realize that a certain amount of "programing" has already taken place. Tis very mind boggling to watch a gentle spirit turn ugly. So when the abuser tells you why it is your fault that they hit you.....it is easy to begin questioning yourself. After all.....they never did this before. Confusion starts to set in. You don't want to tell anyone what happened if you can at all avoid it. Not so much that you are protecting THEM.....as you are protecting YOURSELF. It's almost like you don't want people to know how bad you are. You must be bad, right? Or they would not have hit you. Just like they said

If the person stays......the abuse is likely to continue. The longer it does.....the harder it is to leave. They will threaten you in every imaginable way to make you believe that if you do leave.....you are writing your own death certificate. The sad thing is......the majority of women killed by an abuser are killed AFTER they leave....or during the process of it.

Also....many domestic violence shelters are full at different given times.

There are many women....online....and offline....that God has graced me with, by allowing me to make contact with them and in return.....we both have been helped by it. For the women online....I created a website. It's not a pretty site....but it is straight and to the point. Perhaps almost shocking at times. As life is not always so cut and dry...sometimes shock factors are also wake up calls.

If I may post my site......and perhaps get some of you to bookmark it and hand it out to women you think might benefit from it.....I would be greatly appreciative.

Educate yourself to the "signs" of an abuser. It might save a loved ones life.

And thank you all so much!

Edit (Moderator): Link removed.

~Brooke

Kickycan- I repeat; I sincerely hope you are just playing Devil's Advocate.
Forced sex is rape. In your disgusting example; "drunk man" is a rapist. There may be degrees as to how heinous the act is, but it is rape just the same.
Degrees of murder have to do with intent. When someone is killed by someone not intending to kill them it is not the same thing as premeditated murder. There is even such thing as justifiable homicide. There is no such thing as justifiable rape. I recommend you abandon this line of conversation as it is reflecting very badly on you, devil's advocate or not.

Just in case some of you don't believe there is such thing as justifiable homicide: In an attempt to stop a heinous crime in progress, a bystander hits the assailant on the back of his head with a bat. He only meant to stop the crime, but accidentally kills the assailant in the process. This is justifiable homicide.

Brooke… thank you for posting your website. It is horrifying, yet beautiful. This is only the second time I can recall the plight of a stranger bringing tears to my eyes. Heal darling. I hope you are somehow granted joy sufficient to offset the horrors you have suffered.

Anyone who exerts their will over another is not a pleasant person, and the full force of the law should come down upon them. In the scenario that you have mentioned, the rape that you consider more serious would not be tried as th'other distressing example would; any sane judge would add 'threat of GBH/Murder' to the charges. Yet, the rape element is a rape element, and being lenient- or being seen as being lenient- in anysuch disgusting circumstance is a dangerous thing.

If moving away from the abuser were easy, everyone would do it. I'll make sure that I'll give your website out to appropriate people, Brooke, in the hope that something like this doesn't happen again.