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Sat 23 Jul, 2011 08:05 pm
Quote: -- A Chinese bullet train crashed into another high-speed train that had stalled after being struck by lightning Saturday in eastern China, causing four carriages to fall off a viaduct and killing at least 32 people and injuring 191 others, state media reported.
The first train was traveling from the Zhejiang provincial capital of Hangzhou when it lost power in the lightning strike and was hit from behind by the second train in Wenzhou city at 8:27 p.m., the official Xinhua News Agency said.
The provincial emergency office told Xinhua that at least 32 people were killed and 191 injured.
Early Sunday, Chinese President Hu Jintao and Premier Wen Jiabao called for an all-out effort to rescue passengers still trapped in the wreckage hours after the collision, Xinhua said.
A preliminary investigation by the Zhejiang provincial government released early Sunday showed that four coaches of the moving train fell off the viaduct, Xinhua said. The cars plunged about 65 to 100 feet from the elevated section of track, Xinhua said.
Photos taken at the scene showed one badly damaged car lying on its side by the viaduct and another car leaning against the viaduct after landing on its end.
Xinhua quoted an unidentified witness as saying "rescuers have dragged many passengers out of the coach that fell on the ground."
http://www.mercurynews.com/rss/ci_18537888?source=rss
Of course we are well used the the Chinese blowing off safety, and there has been a lot of questions specifically about the Chinese HSR system over the last few years. In all likelihood we are going to have hundreds dead here, and if so the Chinese have big problems. Over and over again we see the Chinese trying to rebuild their empire without doing the basic work it takes to build an Empire. The waning superpower America benefits for sure, but still this is a reminder that the corruption and general societal rot that has so deeply afflicted the West also plagues the East, which should give pause for anyone who is still hoping that their is an escape from the imminent global economic melt-down.
@hawkeye10,
At least they did it faster than Amtrack, which itself has no great reputation for staying on the tracks.
@roger,
roger wrote:
At least they did it faster than Amtrack, which itself has no great reputation for staying on the tracks.
Amtrak is a disaster, we have never decided what to do with it and we have hardly ever funded it to the degree that it would take to get back to even 1960's speed and quality of service, much less 2011 speed and service. So ya it is a bit rich for an American to be critical of Chinese Rail, but I dont mind.
@hawkeye10,
I don't mind either, but my issue is cost/benefit, which at least somewhat relates to a willingness to pay the fares to recover the investment. Now, not all investment needs to be directly recovered, but there does have to be some sort of overall benefit.
@roger,
America does not have the money nor the financial ability to take on the debt to do HSR, so your point is mute. What interests me here is what happens when the Chinese Government proves again that it is willing to do huge technical projects while playing fast and loose with the safety of the Chinese people? Remember that this comes after the Three Gorges Dam disaster, where many were displaced and much land was lost for a dam that many now think is the cause of earthquakes, which may fail at any time, and even if it does not will fill up with silt and thus become useless long before the Chinese Government claimed that it would. We are seeing shades of Stalinism here, huge poorly planned engineering projects that turn out to be not good for the people or the land. The Soviets survived the incompetence though shear force and oppression, but in 2011 I am not sure that the Chinese Communists can weather the storm.
@hawkeye10,
Hawkee, How bout letting the Chinese get on with the rescue and recovery work before you start auditioning as Pat Robertsons replacement
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Hawkee, How bout letting the Chinese get on with the rescue and recovery work before you start auditioning as Pat Robertsons replacement
I am not holding up the work.....
@hawkeye10,
Safety, High speed service, reliable equipment--PICK TWO
@farmerman,
Hehehehehehehe . . . that was a good one . . .
@Setanta,
But more properly it would be safety, high speed service, reliable equipment, cost. Pick three.
@roger,
The word quality needs to be encultured in the Chinese manufacture mindset. They seem to try to get away with making the chea[pest **** they can. Ford motor had a major deal with onw of the Dhina Steel Companies to make and machine wheels and bearings for their F250 trucks (and higher). The wheels were a mess and were always burning bearings or were rusting at light speed.
Im amazed that these kinds of products are even accepted.
I know that Wal MArt has several levels of products made by major brands IN CHINA and that many of these (home appliances_) have relatively short lives due to low wattage (again minimal windings and cheap crap construction).
Japan led the way in retooling for quality and Chimna seems to be turning the clock back several decades
@farmerman,
China is turning the clock back by centuries. Several hundred years ago, the best manufactured goods in Europe came from France. The English jumped into the market with quantity, and exploiting economies of scale. It was glaringly obvious, too--American Indians prefered French goods to English goods. The Americans took over from the English in manufacturing cheap goods in large quantities, and in the mid- to late-19th century, the Germans took over from them. Even before the Second World War, the Japanese had taken up the method. Many, many nations have use the manufacture of cheap goods as a means to accumulate capital and to get their foot in the door of markets around the globe. All of them have subsequently turned to quality manufacture. That requires an educated work force, and an educated work force is not going to work for peanuts.
The test in China will be how soon and how enthusiastically they make the shift to quality manufacturing.
A lot of this is "evolutionary." Matthew Perry and the United States Navy forced the Japanese to open their ports. The American objective was just to make them safe for Americans. The British and the French moved in and bought concessions and set up a foreigners compound at Yokahama just as had been done in China at Canton. At the beginning of the Meiji period, which was also the end of the Tokugawa shogunate, the French backed the wrong horse, and provided arms and military advisors to the shogunate. With the downfall of the Tokugawas, the British were more or less in the position of last man standing. The Americans were resented for "opening" Japan, and the French had queered their own pitch by backing the Tokugawas. The Japanese began to purchase technology from the British. They purchased ships and arms, and a home-grown electrical industry soon grew up to provide spare parts for the newly purchased navy in the 1880s, and to electrify naval bases. Of course, it didn't take a genius to know they could sell their products to the populace, too.
The British got wonderful concessions, and built railways for them, and later provided automobiles (the Japanese still drive on the left). The Imperial Navy was largely built by the British, although they began to build their own destroyers after 1905 as a first step building a heavy industrial base. The Imperial cruiser Izumo was built by the British, and the Japanese used it honor their treaty obligations (the British had concluded a treaty whereby the Japanese met their "Asiatic Station" obligations, allowing the Royal Navy to concentrate in European waters--in return, they provided the Japanese with the expertise to build their own destoyers, more or less creating heavy industry in Japan). Izumo cruised on the Pacific coast of North America in 1914, and joined the hunt for the German cruisers of the Asiatic fleet--although i don't believe she was in on the kill. Afterward, she returned to Japan and a squadron of destroyers was formed around her, which steamed to the Med and learned submarine warfare from the British. With that experience, they were ready not only to improve their destroyers, but to begin manufacturing their own cruisers. By 1941, Japan was building the best destroyers in the world, and the fastest cruisers and battleships. Combined with their Long Lance topedo, also the best in the world in World War Two, it made the Imperial Navy a potent force.
Unfortunately for them, they did not apply the same standards to their aircraft industry. Their aircraft were high performance, but becuase of the need for aluminum and alloys, they were very expensive, and to achieve high performance while keeping down costs, they sacrificed armament and armor. The Buffalo and the newly arrived Wildcat could not perform with Zeroes, but they could survive the fight, allowing American pilots to gain the experience they needed to mix it up with the Japanese. American aircraft manufacturers quicly adpated to the situation, while the Japanese found it increasingly difficult to replace lost aircraft and especially experienced pilots, and their new designs during the war were essentially the same high-performance but otherwise cheap aircraft. The near destuction of their carrier force at Midway meant that their fleets could be attacked by the Americans almost with impunity.
After the war, with the old military government gone, Japanese businessmen were free to turn their efforts into more profitable areas, largely by producing cheap manufactured goods for "dumping" in foreign countries. Dumping was only partially successful for them, though, because they were still basically selling cheap goods. By 1970, the only reliably high quality goods from Japan were their electronics. Then the U. S. Congress screwed the pooch for us all. First, they required television importers to have tuning dials listing all VHF and UHF channels (cable had not taken off yet). The Japanese responded to that, and their televisions were cable-ready and console video game-ready before Motorola or any other American manufacturers were. (My grandmother bought a Panasonic B & W portable in 1971, with all the channels marked on the tuning dials. When she upgraded to color, she gave it to me. I sold it for $25 in 1986, and last i knew, in 1988, it was still going strong.)
But it was in automobiles that Congress really screwed us. They sought to stem the flood of Japanese cars by placing specified limits on the number of cars they could import. The Japanese responded with a two-pronged attack. The first measure was to immediately upgrade their import cars, now selling luxury compacts and subcompacts which could compete with the American manufacturers, and make a good profit despite the limits on the numbers to be imported. Toyota had been poised to challenge GM's world dominance, but had been attempting to "dump" with cheap compacts. They made the change, but Honda had already been competing with them on the basis of quality, and were first to respond effectively to the new limits imposed by Congress. They also were first on the ground with the second part of the "attack," by building plants in America. Congress created the situation in which Toyota and Honda would beat the stuffing out of American automobile manufacturers.
Not only did the Japanese follow an age-old tradition in building a manufacturing base, but they quicly learned from their mistakes and they implemented what they learned.
@Setanta,
On nations and quality, I'd like to share some knowledge from when I was a machinist in the mid seventies. The very best structural steel came from France. The best pipe flanges and fittings were from Italy. Those babies were forged and machined almost perfectly square and concentric. Forty years later, I still find this surprising.
@roger,
I was unaware of that level of quality in France, but i've long known that the Italians are very good with a superior quality of steel. A great many medical instruments and tools are made in Italy.
@Setanta,
I'm English, and have been to both Japan and Spain on study trips.
In Tokyo, I found that culturally they tend to have a lot in common with us. They tend to talk quietly when out in public, public displays of affection are very much taboo. Overall, they tend to keep themselves to themselves. When I was over there, I found that I was in my comfort zone (something I wasn't expecting.)
However in Spain it was completely the opposite. I was staying with a host family and was required to kiss the family and all the friends I had met every day. Not only was this different, but they ate at different times, the way they spent time with their friends was different (I found that in England it wasn't that dissimilar to Japan), their sense of humour and everything was different.
I found this interesting considering Spain is in Europe as well, but Japan is practically the whole world away.
@TheSubliminalKid,
Quote:However in Spain it was completely the opposite. I was staying with a host family and was required to kiss the family and all the friends I had met every day. Not only was this different, but they ate at different times, the way they spent time with their friends was different (I found that in England it wasn't that dissimilar to Japan), their sense of humour and everything was different.
Something to keep in mind as Spain cascades closer to default, and the EU members continue to expect Spain to suck it up and drive on for the good of the EU.