7
   

All are bigots and dogmatist

 
 
JPhil
 
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2011 05:36 pm
The definition of bigot is
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

And the definition of dogma is
a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church
or
a belief, principle, or doctrine or a code of beliefs, principles, or doctrines

According to the definitions a bigot or a dogmatist is just a person who strongly believes in a doctrine or system. Funny, it seems as if anyone who has a belief is one as well. Even if it is of a church, a group, or some code of beliefs these are believed strongly just as anyone who believes in something strongly of any other kind of principle.

What about those who believe in a position in economics or education. Are they bigots just because they believe strongly in an educational or economic belief? Or what of those who have no economic beliefs and believes strong;y that we shouldn't have one, are they bigots, dogmatist? What about those who believe strongly in a position in: biology, chemistry, music, art, science, philosophy, men, women, finance, games math, etc. Any person who has a strong belief in anything is a bigot or dogmatist according to the definitions.

So it seems there is a certain anger at those who are bigots or dogmatist. But those who are angry at bigots or dogmatist believe strongly in something, which is "That a person should not be a bigot or dogmatist."
 
roger
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2011 05:39 pm
@JPhil,
JPhil wrote:

The definition of bigot is
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.


Don't you think you discussion left out a certain part of your own definition?
George
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jul, 2011 07:41 pm
@roger,
Picky, picky, picky.
0 Replies
 
JPhil
 
  2  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:46 am
@roger,
Yes, of course, it was somewhat implied. Those who hate bigots are themselves bigots because they can't tolerate "those who are bigots." "Hating a bigot" is a belief just as the beliefs the bigot supposedly holds. And we know to hold a belief and not tolerate those who oppose you makes you a bigot. Thus those who "hate bigots" hold the belief that it is good to "hate a bigot." But in having this belief if they are intolerant of those who disagree then they are a bigot.
George
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 09:25 am
@JPhil,
One opposed to bigotry does not necessarily hate a bigot, nor does he
necessarily believe that it is good to hate a bigot.
cicerone imposter
 
  3  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 10:25 am
@JPhil,
How does one "hate a bigot?" Their belief about certain things might not agree with yours, but it may be based on our perception of what is right or wrong.

I disagree with many ideas about religion or politics, and will state the reasons why. Is that hate?

How does disagreements translate into hate?

I disagree with my siblings and friends about religion and politics; I don't hate them.
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 06:57 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Ah! I see. You made a distinction between hating the argument and hating the person. So a bigot is one who hates the person because of their opposing belief. But I will say we are bigots of certain opinions. Take a criminal, he believes he should rob and kill your family for his delight, and this is his belief "That he should rob a kill for his delight." We are a bigot of this belief because he is hurting us. Thus we hate him for his belief.
But I guess though we disagree with him we don't have to hate him. We can still love him though we disagree. This actually bring up an interesting question, I think, is it healthy to tolerate a person you disagree with? Usually our emotions are connected to our beliefs and vice verse.Especially of strong beliefs. It is a hard task to see a political or religious view being accepted by the public and not gain resentment.
0 Replies
 
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 07:08 pm
@George,
Yes, of course. One opposed to bigotry can still love a bigot, the person. Then I guess there is a difference between love and hate, and agreement and disagreement. But I do believe we are all bigots of some person with some belief because it is not possible tolerate every person and their opinions. Especially those that involve the taking away of our life. We should hate those who believe that they should kill us. But I guess we can still love them, but this would be strange.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:16 pm
@JPhil,
I don't believe you are describing bigotry. There's a difference between not respecting an individual - no matter what race, creed, color, or any group - and bigotry which is hating or a feeling of superiority based on the individual's membership in a "group" such as race, culture, tribe, or sexual orientation, and not for any other reason.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Jul, 2011 08:31 pm
@JPhil,
There seems to be a semantic confusion here. A personal set of values and beliefs is not synonimous with 'bigotry', at least not in the way the word is usually understood.
George
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 05:55 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:
There seems to be a semantic confusion here. A personal set of values
and beliefs is not synonimous with 'bigotry', at least not in the way the
word is usually understood.

A good point, Lustig Andrei.

JPhil is using this definition of bigory:

The definition of bigot is
n.
One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics
and is intolerant of those who differ.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 05:01 pm
@George,
Hi, George.
The key word here seems to be "intolerant." Most of us are partial to our "own group, religion, race or politics" but not necessarily, therefore, intolerant of others who come from different cultures.

Partiality and bigotry ain't synonims neither.
George
 
  2  
Reply Fri 15 Jul, 2011 06:45 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Yes.

Another issue is that "bigotry" is a very loaded word. Although JPhil's
quoted definition does not say so, we most often think of it as
intolerance of something harmless. We may be intolerant of pedophilia
or terrorism, but few would call that bigotry.
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 06:06 am
@George,
hm..yes.good point, which is the point I was making. Though we don't call it bigotry it really is. We call the people we don't like bigots, which interestingly, makes us a bigot.
0 Replies
 
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 06:11 am
@cicerone imposter,
But the definition doesn't imply any type of superiority, though we do , the definition still doesn't say so. Thus this is an example of words being used according to how we feel rather by the definition.
0 Replies
 
JPhil
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 06:19 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Oh. If I said so I apologize that's not what I meant. What I meant to say is that hating or liking a bigot is a belief itself. But those who hate bigots are bigots themselves because they can be described as the definition I stated above. They are intolerant of bigots. But if they are tolerant then they are not a bigot. But is it healthy to like someone who hates you vehemently?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 10:48 am
@JPhil,
It's not about someone hating "you." It's about their mindless, racist, homophobic, hatred who speaks out and advocates against other "races/cultures" and homosexuals for their equality.

It's about "all men are created equal." Anyone who advocates against this simple phrase are bigots.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 11:44 am
It is quite easy and common to be a dogmatist without being a bigot.

As Roger suggests, the intolerance of others is the key difference. I imagine it isn't possible to be a bigot without being a dogmatist, but I am not even absolutely sure of this.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 11:58 am
@maxdancona,
If it's not about racial or homophobic issues, it may be true.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Jul, 2011 02:21 pm
@cicerone imposter,
It can also be about religion or any other group that see others as inferior or not qualified to be treated equally.
0 Replies
 
 

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