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its presence = the machine's presence?

Forums: Esl, English, Grammar, Learning English, Efl
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oristarA
 
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 03:22 pm
Context:

In 1637 René Descartes was pondering the possibilities of human-made machines, being certain that their potential would be very limited. It was inconceivable to him that a machine could ever “arrange words so as to adequately reply to what is said in its presence” ( 1). The recent competition between IBM’s supercomputer Watson and two of the
most successful Jeopardy champions demon-strates how far human-made machines have progressed. Nevertheless, Watson’s success
comes at appreciable cost: Whereas humans perform their daily duty of “thinking” by con-suming an average power of only 50 W, Watson consumes more than 2 MW. Imagine how helpful computers could be if processing and storing data could be accomplished by much less power-hungry computers. On page 568 of this issue, Xiong et al. ( 2) demonstrate a remarkable step forward whereby a new design for phase-change memory can lead to a drastic reduction in the power equirements for its operation.
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Type: Question • Score: 1 • Views: 1,027 • Replies: 11
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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 03:47 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
its presence = the machine's presence?


Analyse/look at the sentence, Ori, and try to find all possible antecedents.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 04:28 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
its presence = the machine's presence?


Analyse/look at the sentence, Ori, and try to find all possible antecedents.


One possibility is " what is said ." It's confusing.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 05:07 pm
@oristarA,
How come you are taking all kinds of complex texts? It surely is not ESL. What is your profession?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 05:20 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

How come you are taking all kinds of complex texts? It surely is not ESL. What is your profession?


I'm read Science Magazine.

My profession involves the medical field.

talk72000
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 05:34 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
I'm read Science Magazine.


It should be "I usually read Science Magazine".

You are trying everybody's patience here. Not everyone on this board is a scientist or technically trained. This is not a translation service. You should first improve your English and read simple English texts before tackling complex texts in English. Many technical people don't write good English so the difficulty of the text and the poor English of the technical writer adds to the problem. If you are taking ESL and need help people are willing to help but as not your personal translation service. while you peruse personal interests.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:08 pm
@oristarA,
oristarA wrote:



I'm reading (the latest issue of ) Science Magazine.

My profession involves the medical field.

0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 06:29 pm
@talk72000,
talk72000 wrote:

Quote:
I'm read Science Magazine.


It should be "I usually read Science Magazine".

You are trying everybody's patience here. Not everyone on this board is a scientist or technically trained. This is not a translation service. You should first improve your English and read simple English texts before tackling complex texts in English. Many technical people don't write good English so the difficulty of the text and the poor English of the technical writer adds to the problem. If you are taking ESL and need help people are willing to help but as not your personal translation service. while you peruse personal interests.


You're not familiar with A2K, in which scientists are sometimes around. JPB is a good example who specializes biological science.

If you think I'm pursuing (not peruse - perusing) personal interests, PLEASE DON'T answer everything I post. Because your English is not good enough to help others. Thank you.

As for this thread, it is in fact a simple question, nothing about translation. ONLY BECAUSE you are ignorant of Science, so you got irritated.

The world, or the GLOBAL VILLAGE needs a linguistic tool for communication. If you're impatient with the questions of English, it is possible that you will have to learn Chinese, in which case I'd like to help you out.

It is an example of mutual benefit in linguistics. It is important to be open-minded.


talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 07:02 pm
@oristarA,
I wiil not be answering any of your from now on.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:23 pm
@talk72000,
Talk, you were out of line.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 08:36 pm
@oristarA,
It was inconceivable to him that a machine could ever “arrange words so as to adequately reply to what is said in its presence”

===========================

Quote:
One possibility is " what is said ." It's confusing.


It was inconceivable to him.
A machine could [n]ever “arrange words so as to adequately reply to what is said in its presence”.

I've been teaching a long long time, Ori and there have been times when I couldn't understand why my students couldn't understand. But I was never "my students", was I?

It had to have been confusing or you wouldn't have asked.

I'm tempted to tell you that the only other possibility, 'what is said' can't possess and therefore it can't attract an <its>.

But maybe that's too glib. Maybe there is something more. Do you mind if I chew on it a bit? Please don't hesitate to ask more or tell me more about your thought processes wrt this example. It might help us both.




oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 May, 2011 11:58 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

I'm tempted to tell you that the only other possibility, 'what is said' can't possess and therefore it can't attract an <its>.

But maybe that's too glib. Maybe there is something more. Do you mind if I chew on it a bit? Please don't hesitate to ask more or tell me more about your thought processes wrt this example. It might help us both.


You're RIGHT on the way of scientific thinking and research (liguistics is a branch of science). With so many unsolved puzzles around, scientists have been chewing on for centuries.

So I have had sufficient patience waiting and seeking the answer. Very Happy

The quotation in the thread is from R. Descartes, Discourse on the Method of Rightly Conducting One’s Reason and of Seeking Truth in the
Sciences (Collier & Son, New York, 1909–1914).

When I reread what Descartes says, I believe he tells us:

When the machine is present in a conversation, it can arrange its words (which have been input into the machine in advance) in a way that will properly respond to what it hears.

It is like a sci-fi. Today's scientists have partly realized the dream (voice-recognizing software or artificial intelligence).


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