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Has Churchill said something like this?

Forums: Winston Churchill, History, English, Esl, Grammar
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oristarA
 
Reply Tue 10 May, 2011 11:26 pm
Winston Churchill said in his speech (On December 21, 1959, 80th birthday of Stalin) to the Lower House:"...Fortunately for Russia, the one who led her in the days full of hardships and trials was the talented yet tough Joseph Stalin, an outstanding figure who won the admire of the people of this cruel age that we have lived through..." "His (Stalin's) works show us a majestic and matchless power, and the power is so great in his person as to be unparalleled among the leaders in all ages and all peoples."
(The original text is in Chinese. I translated it into the English above)

I need Winston Churchill's original words in this.


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Type: Question • Score: 10 • Views: 13,459 • Replies: 84

 
fresco
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 12:35 am
@oristarA,
http://richardlangworth.com/2010/10/tribute-to-stalin-nyet/
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 12:52 am
@oristarA,
According to Fresco's link, just in case you are blocked from going to that site, Churchill made no such speech.


Seems like the speech is a lie.

If Churchill HAD said it, he would have said "the ADMIRATION of the people" not the admire of the people.

Edit: I have tried to find another reference for you but cannot find anything!
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 02:46 am
@fresco,
fresco wrote:


Cool!
Thank you.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 02:49 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

According to Fresco's link, just in case you are blocked from going to that site, Churchill made no such speech.


Seems like the speech is a lie.

If Churchill HAD said it, he would have said "the ADMIRATION of the people" not the admire of the people.

Edit: I have tried to find another reference for you but cannot find anything!


It should be ADMIRATION. A translation fault made by me, not Churchill's.

But of course I thank you very much Dlowan.
0 Replies
 
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:14 am
I wonder whether I can delete "and the power is" in "His (Stalin's) works show us a majestic and matchless power, and the power is so great in his person as to be unparalleled among the leaders in all ages and all peoples" without affecting the fullness of its meaning.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:16 am
@oristarA,
Er...did you want to find out if the whole thing is a lie before you begin translating it?

Seems reasonably crucial to me.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:21 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Er...did you want to find out if the whole thing is a lie before you begin translating it?

Seems reasonably crucial to me.


Oh My God! I hope this Oristar's translation will NEVER misleading ANYONE!

I just read the Chinese text today and suspected that the translator had distorted what Churchill said.

I need an ABSOLUTE confirmation that the so-called "speech" is a lie, Dlowan.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:27 am
@oristarA,
Quite.

Do you need anything that is an absolute confirmation that it is the truth?


We need a Churchill buff.

But it sounds like bloody bullshit to me.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 03:34 am
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:

Quite.

Do you need anything that is an absolute confirmation that it is the truth?


We need a Churchill buff.

But it sounds like bloody bullshit to me.


Yeah, come here Churchill buffs!

Surely Stalin is an asshole.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 05:01 pm
I'm sorry I thought I'd posted this earlier. This is from the website of Churchill historian Richard M Langworth.

Churchill made no speeches at all in the House of Com­mons after his retire­ment in 1955, accord­ing to Hansard, the offi­cial Par­lia­men­tary Debates. He did make a hand­ful of speeches dur­ing the 1959 British gen­eral elec­tion held on 8 Octo­ber 1959, but made no men­tion of Stalin, and he cer­tainly made no speeches after Octo­ber. In fact, the eight-volume Com­plete Speeches (Robert Rhodes James, edi­tor, New York: Bowker, 1974) con­tain no speeches at all after brief remarks at the unveil­ing of his statue in Wood­ford, Essex on Octo­ber 31st.

For years it has been stated or implied that Churchill gave a trib­ute to Stalin upon the latter’s death in 1953, or at some time there­after, but there is absolutely no truth to this. Churchill real­ized the truth about Stalin well before 1953. (He did say lauda­tory things about Stalin dur­ing the war, notably in 1942—but things were dif­fer­ent then.)

talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 05:06 pm
@oristarA,
Churchill said: "You can count on the Americans to do the RIGHT thing after they had tried everything else."
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 05:27 pm
@talk72000,
He was very perceptive, but he feared Stalin and rightly so. Stalin was respnsible for liquidating:

Quote:
Brzezinski: 20-25 million, dividing roughly as follows: 7M destroying the peasantry; 12M in labor camps; 1M excuted during and after WW2.

I doubt Churchill ever extolled Stalin's character.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 05:41 pm
@panzade,
Churchill did declare war on Finland to please Stalin. This is the only time that two democracies have been at war. Russia invaded Finland at the same time that the Nazis invaded Norway. The Fins were a lot more successful at repelling the Russians than the Norwegians had been at fighting the Nazis. So when the Nazis attacked Russia the Fins found themselves on the same side as the Nazis. Later on in the war the allies were able to forge a seperate peace with Finland, and get the Russians focussed on the Nazis.

We'd just fought the battle of Britain alone, and held out for a year. America didn't look like they were coming to our aid and the American ambassador Joe Kennedy had pretty much written us off. Russia was a valuable ally against Hitler, and the only ally we had. Stalin and Churchill formed a deep understanding. Churchill knew of Stalin's failings, but he thought he could influence him. In the UK at this time Stalin was popularly known as Uncle Jo. This was all to do with the wartime necessity of keeping up morale and good relations with our ally.

Churchill did know what Stalin was like, but he had a lot of problems convincing Roosevelt, and almost no chance of convincing Truman. Truman found out for himself a bit late in the day.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 06:46 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Churchill did declare war on Finland to please Stalin. This is the only time that two democracies have been at war. Russia invaded Finland at the same time that the Nazis invaded Norway. The Fins were a lot more successful at repelling the Russians than the Norwegians had been at fighting the Nazis. So when the Nazis attacked Russia the Fins found themselves on the same side as the Nazis. Later on in the war the allies were able to forge a seperate peace with Finland, and get the Russians focussed on the Nazis.


1) Two democracies? Finland and Norway?
2) "the Fins found themselves on the same side as the Nazis" = the Fins found themselves can attack Russia as the Nazis did?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 06:51 pm
@oristarA,
Sorry, two democracies Finland and the UK. The Fins were just defending themselves from the Russians. Norway didn't last very long.
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 08:27 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

Sorry, two democracies Finland and the UK. The Fins were just defending themselves from the Russians. Norway didn't last very long.


Thanks.

But I still don't get "on the same side as the Nazis."
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 10:24 pm
@oristarA,
Has Churchill said something like this?
oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 May, 2011 11:28 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Has Churchill said something like this?


Oh NO. I believe that he had NEVER said something like that.

The quotation below IS MY TRANSLATION (from the suspectable Chinese text appeared in Chinese forum):

Quote:
"...Fortunately for Russia, the one who led her in the days full of hardships and trials was the talented yet tough Joseph Stalin, an outstanding figure who won the admiration of the people of this cruel age that we have lived through..." "His (Stalin's) works show us a majestic and matchless power, and the power is so great in his person as to be unparalleled among the leaders in all ages and all peoples."


Disclamer: The quotation above is for the purposes of learning English ONLY; it does not give the guarantee for the authenticity of the content. Please DO NOT do any forms of reprinting or transmitting by any means. Thank you.

0 Replies
 
Besttey
 
  0  
Reply Thu 12 May, 2011 01:05 am
@oristarA,
We'd just fought the battle of Britain alone, and held out for a year. America didn't look like they were coming to our aid and the American ambassador Joe Kennedy had pretty much written us off. Russia was a valuable ally against Hitler, and the only ally we had. Stalin and Churchill formed a deep understanding. Churchill knew of Stalin's failings, but he thought he could influence him. In the UK at this time Stalin was popularly known as Uncle Jo. This was all to do with the wartime necessity of keeping up morale and good relations with our ally.
0 Replies
 
 

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