3
   

What happens (after death)?

 
 
Kaypee
 
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 05:10 pm
I want to ask this as close to neutrally persuaded as possible;

Some people, when asked, always say very assuredly, that life never ends. Some say that it ends, but there is a rebirth with a renewed feeling of purpose. I, and maybe others, believe there must be an ultimate end.

My personal belief stems from a very long sequence of events where I am now no longer in control of my life. This bothers me terribly. Keep in mind, I still stand behind these individuals right to believe this way.

How do I carry on living? I agree to all terms of treatment, but am refused to be dealt with. I am subjected to constant levels of what amounts to the treatment of Jewish leaders during the Holocaust. My best thoughts and feelings are that I will someday cease to exist and relieve those who care for me to live as they please.

I am thinking that the main reasons are as follows;

1. What happens after death? Would it be possible to painlessly execute a person and then revive them a year later? Would that be considered death, or temporary relieved of all lifes given neccessties; ie. breathing, eating? How about 50 years? CAN WE REALLY KNOW WITHOUT TRYING?

2. I am kept in this condition for believing in a just (Christian) God that punishes those individuals who were subjected to such atrocities as the Holocaust, indentured slavery, unimaginable pain. Those are not free of judgement by god. How could a loving god use this barbaric method of judgement?

3. I will still be sitting here, in this chair, in the year 3476. My caretakers believe that. Are there any foreseable acts of nature or man that might happen before then. Can a heart or mind used by one man survive this treatment? It needs to be known I am bound to a wheelchair by ALS or Multiple Sclerosis.

4. Start search for heavens, or place of enlightenment. Where might it be? I cannot do this forever. I am sorry.

5. What is torture? HOw do we know when to give up?

6. Is perfection attainable? My definition is different from yours. I am not capable of perfection. I do not wish to pursue perfection.

7. wHY, when I would legally, with military force, defend anyones right to pursue happiness, deny me the freedom to do the same?

8. if homosexuality is genetic, did it arrive, or has it always been? when did heterosexuality arise?

9. does one need to be physically sound to be mentally and spiritually aware?

 
fresco
 
  3  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 05:28 pm
@Kaypee,
Points for you to contemplate.

1. What is called the "self" dies every night during dreamless sleep, and that which dreams has little resemblance to "normal self".

2. "Spirituality" usually involves dissipation of "self", and its "pseudo-problems" such as those raised by your questions above.

0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 07:06 pm
@Kaypee,
There is existence after death . Not sure if you would call it life though .
Kaypee
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 08:20 pm
@Ionus,
Can you provide some kind of empirical evidence?
rosborne979
 
  4  
Reply Sat 26 Feb, 2011 08:29 pm
@Kaypee,
Kaypee wrote:
What happens (after death)?

Probably the same thing that happened before birth. Only backwards Wink
0 Replies
 
nssan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 02:41 am
The perceptual experience of life after death is impossible. Actually, God has given man, besides perceptual consciousness, rational, aesthetic and moral consciousness too. It is this consciousness that guides man regarding realities that cannot be verified through sensory data. That is why all the prophets of God, while calling people to believe in God and the life hereafter, appealed to the aesthetic, moral and rational sides of man. For example, when the idolaters of Makkah denied even the possibility of life after death, the Qur'an exposed the weakness of their stand by advancing very logical and rational arguments in support of it:

And he has coined for us a similitude, and has forgotten the fact of his creation, saying: Who will revive these bones when they have rotted away? Say: He will revive them who produced them at the first, for He is the Knower of every creation, Who has appointed for you fire from the green tree, and behold! you kindle from it. Is it not He who created the heavens and the earth, able to create the like of them? Yes, and He is indeed the Supreme Creator, the All-Knowing.
At another occasion, the Qur'an very clearly says that the disbelievers have no sound basis for their denial of life after death. It is based on pure conjectures:

They say, 'There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but Time destroys us.' Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture. And when Our revelations are recited to them, their only argument is that they say, 'Bring us our father, if you speak truly.' (Al-Qur'an 45:24-25)

Surely God will raise all the dead. but God has His own plan of things. A day will come when the whole universe will be destroyed and then again the dead will be resurrected to stand before God. That day will be the beginning of the life that will never end, and that Day, every person will be rewarded by God according to his good and evil deeds.
0 Replies
 
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 02:46 am
@Kaypee,
Your request for "empirical evidence" is merely indicative of the simplistic view you hold of "self". Once you begin to realize that that view has been socially acquired through conditioning, your "questions" may begin to disappear.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 02:49 am
nssan wrote:
That day will be the beginning of the life that will never end, and that Day, every person will be rewarded by God according to his good and evil deeds.


People have to be seriously brainwashed to utter such insanities..
nssan
 
  0  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:43 am
@Francis,
I will just give my opinion to those who need more depth in this issue:

The question of whether or not there is life after death does not fall under the field of science, because science is only concerned with the classification and analysis of recorded data. Moreover, man has been busy with scientific enquiries and research, in the modern sense of the term, only for the last few centuries, while he has been familiar with the idea of life after death since times immemorial. All the prophets of God called their people to worship God and to believe in life after death. They laid so much emphasis on the belief in life after death that even a slight doubt in it meant denying God and made all other beliefs meaningless.

Did they realize the truth through experiencing it? Not so, as the perceptual experience of life after death is impossible. Actually, God has given man, besides perceptual consciousness, rational, aesthetic and moral consciousness too. It is this consciousness that guides man regarding realities that cannot be verified through sensory data. That is why all the prophets of God, while calling people to believe in God and the life hereafter, appealed to the aesthetic, moral and rational sides of man.

The explanation that the Qur'an gives about the necessity of life after death is what the moral consciousness of man demands. Actually, if there is no life after death, the very belief in God becomes irrelevant, or even if one believes in God, that would be an unjust and indifferent God: having once created man only to be unconcerned with his fate. Surely, God is just. he will punish the tyrants whose crimes are beyond count: having killed hundreds of innocent persons, created great corruptions in the society, enslaved numerous persons to serve their whims, and so forth. Man, having a very short span of life in this world, and this physical world, also, not being eternal, punishments or rewards equal to the evil or noble deeds of persons are not possible here. The Qur'an very emphatically states that the Day of Judgment must come and God will decide about the fate of each soul according to his or her record of deeds:
Those who disbelieve say: The Hour will never come unto us. Say: Nay, by my Lord, but it is coming unto you surely. (He is) the Knower of the Unseen. Not an atom's weight, or less than that or greater, escapes Him in the heavens or in the earth, but it is in a clear Record. That He may reward those who believe and do good works. For them is pardon and a rich provision. But those who strive against our revelations, challenging (Us), theirs will be a painful doom of wrath. (Al-Qur'an 34:3-5)

The Day of Resurrection will be the Day when God's attributes of Justice and Mercy will be in full manifestation. God will shower His mercy on those who suffered for His sake in the worldly life, believing that an eternal bliss was awaiting them. But those who abused the bounties of God, caring nothing for the life to come, will be in the most miserable state. Drawing a comparison between them the Qur'an says:
Is he, then, to whom we have promised a goodly promise the fulfillment of which he will meet, like the one whom We have provided with the good things of this life, and then on the Day of Resurrection he will be of those who will be brought arraigned before God? (Al-Qur'an 28:61)

The Qur'an also states that this worldly life is a preparation for the eternal life after death. But those who deny it become slaves of their passions and desires, and make fun of virtuous and God-conscious persons. Such persons realize their folly only at the time of their death and wish in vain to be given a further chance in the world. Their miserable state at the time of death, and the horror of the Day of Judgment, and the eternal bliss guaranteed to the sincere believers are very beautifully mentioned in the following verses of the Qur'an.

Until, when death comes unto one of them, he says, 'My Lord, send me back, that I may do right in that which I have left behind!' But nay! It is but a word that he speaks; and behind them is a barrier until the day when they are raised. And when the Trumpet is blown there will be no kinship among them that day, nor will they ask of another. Then those whose scales are heavy, they are successful. And those whose scales are light are those who lose their souls, in hell abiding, the fire burns their faces and they are glum therein. (Al-Qur'an 23:99-104)

The belief in life after death not only guarantees success in the Hereafter, but also makes this world full of peace and happiness by making individuals most responsible and dutiful in their activities.
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 04:45 am
@nssan,
What you are doing is nasty proselytizing..
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2011 08:44 am
@Kaypee,
Quote:
Can you provide some kind of empirical evidence?
No, I can only provide personal experience . Nevertheless it convinced me .
0 Replies
 
Kid A
 
  1  
Reply Thu 3 Mar, 2011 09:44 pm
Personally i like the idea of nothingness. I think without our senses intact we would have no conception of anything. But this I believe it isn't a negative thing. No happiness, but no pain or discomfort just...nothing. But then again I'm a complete fool
0 Replies
 
Sturgis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2011 08:00 am
I'll find out when and if I die.

Is this life it? Is there a place after this? Is Hell being reunited with my mother? Is Heaven being untied as we speak? Are spelunkers really angels? Is there really a center of the earth or are we already there? Is a wigwam the best place to live? Is God gay? When is there? Why is what? Where is who?

There are thousands
of books on the topic about after death, with thousands of ideas many designed to

offer comfort to terrified mankind but virtually all ar unsubstantiated.
nssan
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2011 12:10 am
@Sturgis,
If you read Quran, you can find that Qur'an very clearly says that the disbelievers have no sound basis for their denial of life after death. It is based on pure conjectures:

They say, 'There is nothing but our present life; we die, and we live, and nothing but Time destroys us.' Of that they have no knowledge; they merely conjecture. And when Our revelations are recited to them, their only argument is that they say, 'Bring us our father, if you speak truly.' (Al-Qur'an 45:24-25)

The Qur'an very emphatically states that the Day of Judgment must come and God will decide about the fate of each soul according to his or her record of deeds:

Those who disbelieve say: The Hour will never come unto us. Say: Nay, by my Lord, but it is coming unto you surely. (He is) the Knower of the Unseen. Not an atom's weight, or less than that or greater, escapes Him in the heavens or in the earth, but it is in a clear Record. That He may reward those who believe and do good works. For them is pardon and a rich provision. But those who strive against our revelations, challenging (Us), theirs will be a painful doom of wrath. (Al-Qur'an 34:3-5)
fresco
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2011 12:38 am
@nssan,
No doubt, if you keep repeating such word magic you will keep yourself convinced and earn enough merits to get to heaven ! Evil or Very Mad

Conjectures which "work" persist as "truth". The life after death conjecture works as a psychological palliative against fear of the void, and as a mechanism for social control via its "judgement clause". It has no working basis from an empirical (scientific) point of view. The fallacy is to compare conjecture with a parochial concept of ultimate truth since the latter is also conjecture.

But nssan is unlikely to read such rebuttals from the devil. He would rather join the multitudes on the Hajj and throw stones at "the devil" (taking care perhaps not to hit the little boys doing forced begging along the route).
laughoutlood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2011 12:47 am
@fresco,
Quote:
What happens (after death)?


Please decompose the question.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2011 06:25 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
Is this life it? Is there a place after this? Is Hell being reunited with my mother? Is Heaven being untied as we speak? Are spelunkers really angels? Is there really a center of the earth or are we already there? Is a wigwam the best place to live? Is God gay? When is there? Why is what? Where is who?


Yes . Yes . No . No . No . Yes, No . Sometimes . Yes, in part . Forever . Dont know . First base .
0 Replies
 
 

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