57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:08 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

But Bermuda is not US soil.
You missed that part of my question.


U.S. Bank fraud is a crime, regardless of where it is committed. Publishing informations about the United States is not a crime, not even in the United States. That's why the U.S. is trying so hard to find a "crime" they can stick
on Assange. It's really embarrassing, especially since they haven't found a
law yet where Assange infringed upon. The U.S. government and Obama
spoke of "despicable" about WL activities, it's not a crime though (yet).
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:11 am
@High Seas,
High Seas wrote:

As I understand international treaties - and I'm happy for Wandel or any other lawyers present to correct this - a charge of terrorism would make it an extraditable offense no matter on which country's territory the alleged crime has been committed - BUT no country is bound to extradite its own citizens.

That's why if Assange is moved to Sweden to face these "rape" charges there, ie be moved out of a Commonwealth country automatically providing him with citizenship and consular protection, he would be in danger of extradition to the US - see previous pages for what might await him here.

As to the rape charges - one of them is from a woman stating she was lying on her sofa dressed only in underwear, had drunk half a bottle of akvavit (however the damn hootch is spelled in Swedish) and that's a woman over 30 who's lived in Sweden her whole life - like, yo, sister, get a grip!


High Seas, even if Assange is moved and faces charges in Sweden, the United States still doesn't have a claim against him. There is no U.S. law he has broken
despite U.S. prosecutors frantic search for one.... Wink
DrewDad
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:21 am
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:

But Bermuda is not US soil.
You missed that part of my question.

But the bank's computers, and the data networks connecting to them, do reside on US soil. Which is where the crime occurs, and why such a person could be prosecuted under wire fraud charges.

And....

There was a discussion earlier in the thread about the difference between taking the classified documents and receiving the classified documents. Even if Assange did the entire project on US soil, it's doubtful that they could have a successful prosecution.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:21 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
The U.S. government and Obama
spoke of "despicable" about WL activities, it's not a crime though (yet).


As it been a common practice for a few generations at least now for government officers up to the president to "leak" information to the press so they are not going to be in a hurry to outlaw the press from printing such information.

We also have the little matter of the Constitution and the history of courts rulings applying to press freedoms under it.

Oh yes they are trying to tap dance around that problem by claiming that Wikileaks is not cover under the press rulings. Good luck in getting any court to agree with them on that matter.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:22 am
@mysteryman,
If such is not a crime in Bermuda (though I do think, it is one) he hasn't committed a crime there.

Thomas is correct: although many US-citizen think so, the US-law isn't law in any country outside the U.S.A. jurisdiction.
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:24 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:


So if I happen to had aided a Chinese citizen over the internet to bypass Chinese censorship and thereby breaking Chinese laws by so doing, that China could then demand my extradition to China to face charges?



Yes, if there was such a treaty between the USA and China.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:28 am
Even if there weren't, i hope we could make an exception in Bill's case . . .
0 Replies
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:28 am
wikileaks needs to do something worthy of discussion.

the air is thick with much ado about nothing...
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And we have a treaty with the UK or any other European nation allowing us to imposed our laws on non-US citizens not living in the US?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:32 am
Could murderers in other countries be extradited to the US because murder is a crime there?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:33 am
@Walter Hinteler,
That is an interesting point about treaties, Walter. Thomas is correct, but do international agreements have any effect on the issue of prosecuting Wikileaks?
CalamityJane
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:35 am
@wandeljw,
On what grounds, wandel? What U.S. laws has Assagne broken worth prosecuting?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:43 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Could murderers in other countries be extradited to the US because murder is a crime there?


If had happens at least involving a US citizen.

A case in point is a murder outside of the US involving two US citizens.

Man is charge with killing his wife during an underwater dive and he had been extradited to stand trial in the US.

A Mexican doctor who aided a drug gang in torturing to death a DEA agent in Mexico were illegal seized also in Mexico and brought before an American court on charges.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:48 am
@CalamityJane,
Quote:
JTT, that's the source wandel does not accept


Surprise, surprise, isn't it, CJ?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:54 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
He is not a US citizen or living in any territory of the US so how in the hell does our laws apply to him?


Manuel Noreiga

Is there something in their water that can cause more Americans to be more prone to rank hypocrisy?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:54 am
@spendius,
LOS ANGELES (KABC) -- He already served prison time in Australia for the drowning death of his wife during their honeymoon. Now Gabe Watson has arrived in Los Angeles on his way to Alabama where he could face more serious charges.

Prosecutors in Alabama will now have to prove that Gabe Watson should go to prison again, this time on American soil, for the death of his wife.

The husband says he wasn't a good dive buddy because he swam away as his new wife sank to the ocean floor after her scuba tanks failed. His late wife's family and the alabama district attorney say it was pre-meditated murder. That he turned off the air and held her while she died in his arms.

They were married in October 2003. Tina, the excited, smiling bride facing a new life as Gabe Watson's wife. Prosecutors say the groom was already planning her murder before their honeymoon scuba diving in Australia.

That is her body on the reef after Alabama prosecutors say she was killed. Her husband Gabe served 18 months for manslaughter, essentially an unintentional murder.

The sentence outraged people both in Australia and Tina's home state of Alabama.

Undercover video shows Gabe Watson stealing flowers from his dead wife's grave. A private detective was hired by the family to discover the thief.

Two divers demonstrated how prosecutors believe Tina was killed by her husband.

Australia at first would not extradite Watson.

"Australia does not deport people if there is a risk they will be subject to capital punishment," said Chris Bowen, Australia's immigration minister.

Eventually the U.S. State Department and the state of Alabama agreed that Watson would not face the death penalty if Australia would extradite him. He has been indicted for murder for financial gain. There was a small life insurance policy.

Watson is now being kept at the LAPD's 77th Street station. He was flown into Los Angeles International Airport Thursday morning, accompanied by Queensland police officers and two immigration officials. He will remain in LAPD custody until next week.

The dead woman's father often visits the grave in Birmingham, Alabama. It has no stone because the plot belongs to her husband of 11 days, the man now charged with murdering her.

Only months after Tina was killed diving in Australia, her husband remarried. His second wife is said to look a lot like Tina.

Next week Gabe Watson is expected to appear in a Los Angeles court, where a judge will order him extradited to Alabama on murder charges.

(Copyright ©2010 KABC-TV/DT. All Rights Reserved.)


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Tags:murder, homicide investigation, world news, john north
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BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 10:59 am
@JTT,
Quote:
Manuel Noreiga

Is there something in their water that can cause more Americans to be more prone to rank hypocrisy?


We used military force for Noreiga something I do not think we are going to do to the UK.

Noreiga was also a head of state attacking the US by allowing/aiding drugs to flow into the US by using his position not the same situation.


0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 11:01 am
@JTT,
Gee JTT--do you have to put up with this stuff in your social life? I can hardly believe some of the stuff I'm reading here.
0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 11:02 am
@CalamityJane,
That's exactly the problem with prosecution in the US - the man isn't a citizen, the alleged crime didn't take place on US territory, and it's not even proven by anybody that ANY crime took place except for some OTHER low-level munchkin publicising confidential (unclassified) communications.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 11:03 am
@BillRM,
Quote:
Could murderers in other countries be extradited to the US because murder is a crime there?


Sensitivities over what Mexico views as United States pressures on its sovereignty have hampered cooperation over drug interdiction. The 1985 kidnapping and murder of DEA agent Enrique Camarena caused lingering tension, in part because of evidence of complicity by Mexican security forces linked with the drug trade. In 1990 bounty hunters hired by the DEA captured a Mexican doctor believed to have participated in the torture of Camarena. He was spirited to the United States for trial, and his conviction in a United States court was upheld by the United States Supreme Court despite Mexican protests over what it viewed as violations of Mexican sovereignty and international law. Mexico's indignation over the United States action resulted in a revision of the rules under which the DEA operates in Mexico.

 

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