57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:35 pm
@wandeljw,
Excellent article.

A
R
T
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:41 pm
The following are three sequential articles concerning the question of whether or not Assange can be tried under the Espionage Act and what the result might be.

The dispute concerning freedom of speech seems academic because both authors don't believe the First Amendment bars prosecution of journalists, but it does provide insight on how and why the NY Times could have been prosecuted for its publishing of the Pentagon Papers (including an excerpt of a Byron White opinion) which extends to the same question of prosecuting Assange, even if he is considered a journalist.

Interestingly enough, neither of these experts mention the jurisdictional hurdles which Thomas and other believe are the ultimate bar to prosecuting Assange under the Espionage Act. Perhaps they deliberately chose not to address the issue because it defeats their shared desired outcome, or perhaps its because it has no application.

FIRST

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703814404576001921148451638.html?KEYWORDS=schoenfeld

SECOND

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/254793/prosecuting-assange-under-espionage-act-andrew-c-mccarthy

THIRD

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/254906/re-prosecuting-assange-under-espionage-act-gabriel-schoenfeld
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:44 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I don't know if this helps understand U.S. government. There are two federal acts, the Privacy Act and the Freedom of Information Act. Government employees respond to requests for information made under FOIA as long as it does not violate the Privacy Act.


newspeak, JW. Is this a direct quote from Animal Farm or just a paraphrase?
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 12:45 pm
It's a waste of time and stupid to prosecute Assange. The DoJ should be using it's energy on other things.

A
R
T
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:03 pm
@Setanta,
John Dean has made great strides in his life to make amends.

What should really creep you out is looking in the mirror and considering that you, yourself have not made any amends regarding your participation in the war crimes of Vietnam. In fact, you have taken pains to defend those war crimes.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:05 pm
@Setanta,
John Dean has made great strides in his life to make amends.

What should really creep you out is looking in the mirror and considering that you, yourself have not made any amends regarding your participation in the war crimes of Vietnam. In fact, you have taken pains to defend those war crimes.

What should really creep you out is that you sit silent even in the face of numerous clear examples of troops that engaged in the most vicious of war crimes.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I'm not sure I would classify Dean as a Whistle Blower (unless criminals who turn on their confederates under police coercion are considered Whistle Blowers) . . .


Yup, that's how i see him. In particular, he creeps me out for the days on end that he sat in front of that Senate committee and calmly, quietly spilled the beans on that truly bizarre bunker mentality on Pennsylvania Avenue in those days.
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:09 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I'm not sure I would classify Dean as a Whistle Blower (unless criminals who turn on their confederates under police coercion are considered Whistle Blowers),


I'm not sure that a man who mightily defends war criminals, a man who verily delights in the terrorist actions of the USA is anyone who can be trusted to provide honest commentary on such an issue.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:13 pm
@JTT,
http://www.webpulp.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/5414660_8716bf615a.jpg
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:25 pm
@failures art,
You just don't understand propaganda, Art, ... or maybe you do.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 01:32 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
In particular, he creeps me out for the days on end that he sat in front of that Senate committee and calmly, quietly spilled the beans on that truly bizarre bunker mentality on Pennsylvania Avenue in those days.


Setanta seems to have trouble with someone who tells the truth, who exposes crime and corruption. Well, that's not exactly true. He only has problems with their demeanor as they tell the truth/expose crime/corruption.

Weigh John Dean's actions against Setanta's defense of the war crimes of the US government in Vietnam.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:12 pm
The following article indirectly speaks to one of my concerns: WikiLeaks Blowback.

Quote:
The U.S. government’s response to both (the theft and release of classified documents) has been distressingly feckless.


Quote:
First and most obviously, how is it possible that those responsible for security at the Departments of Defense and State did not foresee — and take measures that would have prevented — the possibility of a 22-year-old Army private not just accessing but also downloading such classified information?


This is one of the most important questions coming out of this affair. No matter what we think of Assange and his purposes, there is no reason to believe that Manning would have been detected and apprehended before he transferred the purloined data if the intended recipient was a foreign government with ill intent towards the US. The entire WikiLeaks debacle would not have occurred were it not for a monumental security screw-up by our government.

Quote:
Second, after the first WikiLeaks document dump back in July, why did a computer worm or virus not find its way into WikiLeaks servers and destroy them?

Instead, we’re hearing Pentagon spokesmen say it’s not that the U.S. lacks the means to put WikiLeaks out of business, but that such a response would have been excessive in this instance.



Who is charge of our cyber defenses and offense? Who is making these decisions? Let's have a leak about this.

US officials (including the Attorney General) have had harsh words for Assange and dire words concerning the harm these leaks have caused. Millions of people around the world believe the US government is twisting arms in corporations like Amazon and MasterCard as well as the arms of officials in foreign nations in an effort to contain the leaks and prosecute Assange. Now we are supposed to believe that the Administration felt that a cyber-attack against WikiLeaks would have been excessive?

Quote:
But the alternative explanation is that America’s cyber-warriors have not yet mastered their trade.


This more like it. In fact the US, does lack the means to put WikiLeaks out of business.

I'm sure this is welcome news to many of Assange's supporters, but, again, irrespective of what one might think of WikiLeaks, it is not good news that our cyber-war capabilities are so meager.

Quote:
Cyberspace is not the battlefield of the future — it’s the battlefield of the present.

Chinese military analyst Wang Huacheng has described America’s reliance on information technology and the Internet as the country’s “soft ribs and strategic weakness.”


Military commands in general are a reactionary bunch, always preparing today to fight yesterday's war, and the American command is no different. It's not difficult to imagine a small group of hardnosed generals in the Pentagon grumbling about what fighting was like in their day and how it always comes down to the fighting man and a loaded weapon. Most of the top brass began their careers during a time when there weren’t such things as e-mail and PCs, let alone Cloud Computing.

Little understanding = little interest = little funding.

Here's the problem though: If WikiLeaks is an eye-opener for our military that will be a good thing, but the typical reaction to real or perceived chaos is tighter control not relaxed concern, and I don't think too sharp a distinction will be drawn between the actions and intent of an outfit like WikiLeaks and those of an enemy government or organization. If the internet is a dangerous wilderness, it must be tamed.

The threat posed by WikiLeaks doesn't center on the fact that the information was obtained (although preventing that, prevents all else) but that it was disseminated and made widely available to everyone. If, as some argue, it is impossible to stop a determined hacker, then the next best defense is to limit the audience available to him.

Assange may know all of a government's secrets, but if he can share and expose them to a wide public audience, he's been neutralized. Before his adoring throng convince themselves that this affair heralds the emergence of a brave new world of transparency and unfettered information, they should pause and consider that the powerful people who believe that secrets (for good or bad) must be kept are not going to simply throw up their hands and concede him his victory.

http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/254827/cyber-wakeup-call-clifford-d-may
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:17 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
The threat posed by WikiLeaks doesn't center on the fact that the information was obtained (although preventing that, prevents all else) but that it was disseminated and made widely available to everyone. If, as some argue, it is impossible to stop a determined hacker, then the next best defense is to limit the audience available to him.

Assange may know all of a government's secrets, but if he can share and expose them to a wide public audience, he's been neutralized. Before his adoring throng convince themselves that this affair heralds the emergence of a brave new world of transparency and unfettered information, they should pause and consider that the powerful people who believe that secrets (for good or bad) must be kept are not going to simply throw up their hands and concede him his victory.


This is still a win-win in the fight against the secrecy state. As you force your opponent to go to ever greater lengths to defend his secrecy, you begin to majorly reduce the effectiveness of their operation - and greatly increase the cost of that operation at the same time. That's hacker 101.

It doesn't matter to the 'transparency' advocates of the world that the military and DoD will resort to harsher measures to secure their stuff; it's still a win for them. Raising the cost of keeping security tight greatly lowers the odds that gigantic amounts of data will be decided to kept secret in the first place.

Besides, we all know that these measures are doomed to fail over time, like all security systems and measures are. It's just too hard to keep something secret and too easy to widely disseminate the info in a digital world.

I don't know what the effects of our new, open-info world will be - but there's simply no going back. Assange isn't even important himself, at all.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 02:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You seem to me Finn to be talking about our addiction to computers. What caused that. The human race had done without computers for a couple of million years. If it is said that the extension of our ego's control over the surrounding space, the proper definition of sadism, the basic principle of NFL, is the cause then there are two difficulties.

One is that not every human being has such a need and thus it is learned which leads to who was it learned off. Is it a form of junk? Which, as Mr Burroughs said, leads to more junk.

The other is that we were warned. The Marquis de Sade for one. The first.

Our systems would now break down without computers. Like all goodies there's a dark side. They warn heroin takers don't they. Oil users.

It's us. I'm not in denial. I'm not looking for scapegoats. It's history. Given the addiction it was inevitable. It might even be a good thing it has happened at this low level. Better now than later.

Doing away with pretty young filing clerks was obviously ridiculous.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 04:58 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
This cause for transparency requires a "Secrecy State" as the enemy (referring to it as an "opponent" is a perfect example of the silly conceit truth-Warriors bring to this issue) in its epic conflict.

The Enemy must also be rapaciously malevolent enough that its defeat is worth any "collateral damage" be that the lives of informants and intelligence agents, or a loss of the freedom to communicate and be informed.

Such an enemy state may, in fact, exist, but not in the Western hemisphere which is where WikiLeaks efforts have been targeted, and when the forces of transparency find the courage to go to war against the true Secrecy States, they will be up against foes with a ruthlessness far starker than anything they are facing now.

There is a great deal of naivety displayed in a strategy that presumes the calculus that an increased cost of information security will result in less security. The Secrecy State doesn't have a set budget for information security that can't be exceeded. Once the expected cost is spent, funds will be diverted accordingly.

Equally unrealistic is the smug confidence in inevitability of transparency. We are smack dab in the center of the Information Age and still there are numerous states where clouds of secrecy far darker than anything seen in the West prevail.




Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:11 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:

The Enemy must also be rapaciously malevolent enough that its defeat is worth any "collateral damage" be that the lives of informants and intelligence agents, or a loss of the freedom to communicate and be informed.


Seeing as there's little to no evidence that this has actually happened, I'm going to describe this as 'breathless exaggeration.'

Quote:
There is a great deal of naivety displayed in a strategy that presumes the calculus that an increased cost of information security will result in less security.


Not less security, but less effectiveness of security and the security state; as costs mount and paranoia mounts, effectiveness drops. Which is what I actually wrote.

Quote:
Equally unrealistic is the smug confidence in inevitability of transparency. We are smack dab in the center of the Information Age and still there are numerous states where clouds of secrecy far darker than anything seen in the West prevail.


LOL, right. But for how long? And are they more or less secret now than they used to be, before the proliferation of the information age?

Betting on increased secrecy in the future is truly foolish, Finn. You know this thing is only headed one direction. At least, if you knew the first thing about information and data security, you would.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:18 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Equally unrealistic is the smug confidence in inevitability of transparency. We are smack dab in the center of the Information Age and still there are numerous states where clouds of secrecy far darker than anything seen in the West prevail.


This an inferential tu quoque fallacy--because someone is worse than a bad man does not excuse or mitigate the badness of that bad man. Because there might exist states in which a pernicious devotion to secrecy greater than that of our own nation exists, does not excuse or justify the arrogant and crypto-aristocratic secrecy of this state.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:31 pm
Finally found out how to link directly to this Assange/Ellsberg bit on Colbert Report:
http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/368131/december-09-2010/international-manhunt-for-julian-assange---daniel-ellsberg
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Quote:
This is still a win-win in the fight against the secrecy state. As you force your opponent to go to ever greater lengths to defend his secrecy, you begin to majorly reduce the effectiveness of their operation - and greatly increase the cost of that operation at the same time. That's hacker 101.


Doing simple things like disabling USB ports and dvd/cd burners have a large overhead?

Keeping Monitoring software going to red flag odd behaviors like a clerk accessing and or dumping a few G of secure cables?

Encrypting any information that is going to be traveling outside of secure buildings have a large overhead?

There is something wrong when I have more security on my computers then the government seem to be using.

Good luck in getting information from my computers without my permission by getting pass my encrypted drives or getting malware into my computer pass my sandbox browser and other security programs.

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 10 Dec, 2010 05:41 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

You seem to me Finn to be talking about our addiction to computers. What caused that. The human race had done without computers for a couple of million years. If it is said that the extension of our ego's control over the surrounding space, the proper definition of sadism, the basic principle of NFL, is the cause then there are two difficulties.

One is that not every human being has such a need and thus it is learned which leads to who was it learned off. Is it a form of junk? Which, as Mr Burroughs said, leads to more junk.

The other is that we were warned. The Marquis de Sade for one. The first.

Our systems would now break down without computers. Like all goodies there's a dark side. They warn heroin takers don't they. Oil users.

It's us. I'm not in denial. I'm not looking for scapegoats. It's history. Given the addiction it was inevitable. It might even be a good thing it has happened at this low level. Better now than later.

Doing away with pretty young filing clerks was obviously ridiculous.


I don't know that I would call it addiction, but we have reached a point where our reliance on computers is so deep and widespread, that their disappearence over night would result in a global catastrophe. The same thing can be said of other technological innovations.

For example:

Automobiles
Mastery of electricity
Pharmacology
Mastery of fire

Computers are not at stake in the tranparency wars and a crackdown on the internet will not be immediately calamitous, if it ever is, but to the extent that we value the free and expansive exchange of information the internet allows us, increased governmental controls will not be welcome.

This is a real risk and one which I'm not comfortable having Julian Assange and WikiLeaks take for me, particularly when the return on that risk is illusory.
 

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