57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 02:36 am
@msolga,
The saddest part of all this, for Australians who care, is that it's very clear that the Australian government has chosen, out of all too usual expediency & subservience , not to "get involved".
So what's new?
The (then) conservative Oz government acted like they couldn't help Australians at Guantanamo Bay, either (until David Hicks became an election "issue")
Nothing has changed since.
They could & should have asked the very same questions the Ecuadorian government asked.
The Australian government knows nothing & says it can do nothing. Just like Manuel. :

https://encrypted-tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ6BMejGDm-vFroM6Y5UwEzmPtBj4e9AgTQxyRYvXNAhVtCvyuT &
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 06:39 am
Didn't the UK provide protection for Pinochet?

Doesn't the US provide all manner of protection for actual war criminals, for terrorists of all stripe, indeed, for ongoing terrorist activities by their own CIA and dog knows what other branches of government.

The unmitigated gall of these assholes - it's truly mind boggling.

What do you think, JW?
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:07 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Didn't the UK provide protection for Pinochet?

Britain allowed him to return to Chile after he'd been arrested in London.
Quite a saga!

Indictment and arrest of Augusto Pinochet:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indictment_and_arrest_of_Augusto_Pinochet#Arrest_in_London
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:38 pm
@msolga,
Reading the news online on this Saturday morning & found this article in the AGE.
Just as many of us have already suspected for ages ... the Australian government has known about the very real US pursuit of Julian Assange for ages .... like since 2010 at least ...
Shame on our cowardly government!
Bob Carr, you'd better start reading from another script. Your pants are very obviously on fire!

Quote:
US in pursuit of Assange, cables reveal
August 18, 2012
Philip Dorling/the AGE/Sydney Morning Herald


http://images.smh.com.au/2012/08/18/3564833/assange-300x0.jpg
WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange. Photo: Reuters

EXCLUSIVE

AUSTRALIAN diplomats have no doubt the United States is still gunning for Julian Assange, according to Foreign Affairs Department documents obtained by The Saturday Age.

The Australian embassy in Washington has been tracking a US espionage investigation targeting the WikiLeaks publisher for more than 18 months.

The declassified diplomatic cables, released under freedom of information laws, show Australia's diplomatic service takes seriously the likelihood that Assange will eventually be extradited to the US on charges arising from WikiLeaks obtaining leaked US military and diplomatic documents.

This view is at odds with Foreign Minister Bob Carr's repeated dismissal of such a prospect.


Australia's ambassador to the US, former Labor leader Kim Beazley, has made high-level representations to the American government, asking for warning of any moves to prosecute Assange. However, briefings for Prime Minister Julia Gillard and Senator Carr suggest the Australian Government has no in-principle objection to Assange's extradition.

On Thursday, Ecuador granted Assange political asylum at its London embassy on the grounds that if extradited to Sweden to be questioned about sexual assault allegations he will be at risk of further extradition to the US to face espionage or conspiracy charges.

Last night, the diplomatic standoff continued. Foreign Secretary William Hague said Britain would not allow Assange safe passage out of the country, ''nor is there any legal basis for us to do so''. However, he later told reporters ''there is no threat here to storm an embassy''.

WikiLeaks announced on Twitter that Assange would give a statement outside the embassy tomorrow. Meanwhile, one of his defence lawyers said he would appeal to the International Court of Justice if Britain prevented him from going to Ecuador.

In May, Senator Carr told a Senate estimates committee hearing: "We have no advice that the US has an intention to extradite Mr Assange … nothing we have been told suggests that the US has such an intention."

However, the Australian embassy in Washington reported in February that "the US investigation into possible criminal conduct by Mr Assange has been ongoing for more than a year".

The embassy noted media reports that a US federal grand jury had been empanelled in Alexandria, Virginia, to pursue the WikiLeaks case and that US government officials "cannot lawfully confirm to us the existence of the grand jury".

Despite this, and apparently on the basis of still classified off-the-record discussions with US officials and private legal experts, the embassy reported the existence of the grand jury as a matter of fact. It identified a wide range of criminal charges the US could bring against Assange, including espionage, conspiracy, unlawful access to classified information and computer fraud.

Australian diplomats expect that any charges against Assange would be carefully drawn in an effort to avoid conflict with the First Amendment free speech provisions of the US constitution.

The cables also show that the Australian government considers the prospect of extradition sufficiently likely that, on direction from Canberra, Mr Beazley sought high-level US advice on "the direction and likely outcome of the investigation" and "reiterated our request for early advice of any decision to indict or seek extradition of Mr Assange".

The question of advance warning of any prosecution or extradition moves was previously raised by Australian diplomats in December 2010.

American responses to the embassy's representations have been withheld from release on the grounds that disclosure could "cause damage to the international relations of the Commonwealth".

Large sections of the cables have been redacted on national security grounds, including parts of reports on the open, pre-court martial proceedings of US Army Private Bradley Manning, who is alleged to have leaked a vast quantity of classified information to WikiLeaks. Australian embassy representatives have attended all of Private Manning's pre-trial hearings.

Australian diplomats have highlighted the prosecution's reference to "several connections between Manning and WikiLeaks which would form the basis of a conspiracy charge" and evidence that the investigation has targeted the "founders, owners, or managers of WikiLeaks" for espionage.

However, the embassy was unable to confirm the claim in a leaked email from an executive with US private intelligence company Stratfor, that "[w]e have a sealed indictment against Assange".

"Commentators have ... suggested that the source may have been referring to a draft indictment used by prosecutors to 'game out' possible charges," the embassy reported in February. "There is no way to confirm the veracity of the information through official sources."

A spokesperson for Senator Carr said yesterday Assange's circumstances remained a matter for the UK, Ecuador and Sweden, with Australia's role limited to that of a consular observer.


US in pursuit of Assange, cables reveal:
http://www.smh.com.au/national/us-in-pursuit-of-assange-cables-reveal-20120817-24e8u.html

.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:43 pm
Quote:
with Australia's role limited to that of a consular observer


How wonderful to know what your passport is actually worth.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 04:58 pm
@hingehead,
...unless you're a convicted drug smuggler locked up in another country's gaol! Neutral

Schapelle Corby eligible to apply for parole next month:
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-17/schapelle-corby-eligible-to-apply-for-parole-next-month/4207156
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:03 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Shame on our cowardly government!


Your government is not cowardly Olga. It is just in a weak position. 22 million in a continent is a nothing thing these days. Get ******* if you want to count.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:23 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Get ******* if you want to count.

Confused Confused Confused

No idea of what that means, but never mind ...

So, if you're only a small country, it's OK to be bullied by a stronger "ally"?

It is extremely disappointing that we (Australians) have had to rely on material gained by the Age & the Sydney Morning Herald via freedom of information. Only to discover that our own government has been denying (lying about?) information it has clearly had access to since 2010, through its ambassadors.

As I've said before, Ecuador (not exactly a large or powerful country either) is saying the very things that the Australian government should have been saying in defence of an Australian citizen's rights.
Remember, Assange has not been charged with any crime in any country.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:28 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
So, if you're only a small country, it's OK to be bullied by a stronger "ally"?


Nope. I didn't say it was okay.

Assange offered himself up as the football. Being surprised at being kicked around after doing that is ridiculous. 30 odd miners have been shot dead in South Africa.

Are you a racist Olga?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:33 pm
So why is Ecuador mixing it up in all of this?

It can't be because they support freedom of speech.

Just listened to a radio feature on Ecuador's feeble human rights and freedom of speech history. Thought I'd take a look at what Human Rights Watch has to say about Ecuador.

http://www.hrw.org/americas/ecuador

and Amnesty International's got a fair bit to watch there as well

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/ecuador

an op-ed concludes with

Quote:
Julian Assange clearly views Ecuador as a safe haven but for many who live there, planted firmly in their lands, justice remains a distant reality. I hope those whose eyes briefly rested on this country will hold their gaze long enough to see the whole picture


http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/op-ed-few-things-you-should-know-about-ecuador-beyond-assange-2012-07-17
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:36 pm
@spendius,
Confused Rolling Eyes

I think I'll leave you to it, spendius, whatever tree you're barking up.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 05:52 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
So why is Ecuador mixing it up in all of this?

Because Julian Assange asked them for asylum, that's why.
In the complete absence of support from his own country.

As for Ecudor's human rights record: at no point have I argued that it's squeaky clean. Nor could I argue the same for quite a few other "western" countries, including my own. We are not squeaky clean in that respect, either.

But I have been talking about the Australian government's failure to give proper support to an Australian citizen. And I repeat: Assange has not been charged with any crime in any country.

I guess we could have the discussion about all our countries' human rights records, including that of Ecuador. I don't have any problem with that at all. But I'd prefer that this thread stayed, vaguely at least, on topic.

.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 06:23 pm
Still catching up on the news on this Saturday morning ...
Latest update:

Quote:
WIKILEAKS founder Julian Assange will appeal to the International Court of Justice if Britain prevents him from going to Ecuador, according to a senior Spanish human rights lawyer.

Baltasar Garzon, who is working on Assange's defence, told Spanish newspaper El Pais that Britain was legally required to allow Assange to leave once he had diplomatic asylum.

"What the United Kingdom must do is apply the diplomatic obligations of the refugee convention and let him leave, giving him safe conduct," he said. "Otherwise, he will go to the International Court of Justice." ... <cont>

Assange looks to international court:
http://www.theage.com.au/world/assange-looks-to-international-court-20120817-24e7q.html

.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 06:37 pm
@msolga,
Still reading ...
Today's AGE editorial.

(for the information of o/s folk, the AGE is a mainstream (Fairfax) Oz newspaper, base in Melbourne. Not some fringe "red rag" publication. OK? Wink )

Quote:
Assange exploits decade of US folly
August 18, 2012 /AGE editorial

THE saga of Julian Assange's extradition from Britain, which began with the WikiLeaks founder having sex with ''Miss A'' and ''Miss W'' in Sweden two years ago, could only have happened in a post-9/11 world. Before the US-led coalition's ''war on terror'' redefined the rule of law as dispensable, Assange's fear of political persecution - the basis on which he has won asylum in Ecuador's embassy in London - would simply have been ridiculous. Instead, the insistence by Britain, Sweden and Australia that there is no more to this extradition than a purely criminal investigation is debatable.

The Saturday Age reveals that Australia, as Assange's home country, has communicated with the US about his potential prosecution over the online release of a trove of classified information. Senior US officials have declared him a security threat who should be prosecuted for espionage. There is evidence of a US investigatory process and preparations for an indictment that could form the basis for extradition from Sweden. Australia has been a reluctant defender of Assange's legal rights ever since Prime Minister Julia Gillard pre-emptively declared: ''The foundation stone [of the WikiLeaks postings] is an illegal act that certainly breached the laws of the United States of America.'' Claims to be ignorant of US prosecutors' plans now stand exposed as false.

The Australian attitude recalls the glaring lack of concern about the detention without charge of two other citizens, David Hicks and Mamdouh Habib, at Guantanamo Bay. The US tried to put its detainees beyond the reach of its courts, engaged in extrajudicial rendition and torture, then tailored retrospective laws to obtain convictions in military courts. Few requirements of a fair trial were met. The role of Britain and Australia in all this assists Assange's claim that he fears extradition to the US to face charges that may carry the death penalty.

Ecuador has clashed with the US and has a record of rights abuses - notably, and ironically, in judicial interference and denying its citizens freedom of expression. However, the recent track record of the US and its allies in bending and even breaking long-standing international laws and conventions creates enough doubts about the circumstances of Assange's case that Ecuador has felt able to accept him as a ''victim of political persecution''. The claim that he faces a real but unacknowledged risk of extradition to a third country, the US, where ''he would not face a fair trial'', is founded on the record of the past decade.

Let us be clear about this. Justice in the Swedish case requires a fair hearing of the allegations of sexual assault, a serious, non-political crime. Even given troubling aspects of the investigation and the question of whether the alleged acts constitute a crime in British law, Assange's bid for asylum would have been doomed if only Britain and Sweden had an interest in this case, as our government pretends.

Yet if this were a routine and, in the scheme of things, minor case, would the British government be willing to move heaven and earth to get its man? Foreign Secretary William Hague even declares that Britain refuses to recognise the concept of diplomatic asylum and could arrest Assange inside Ecuador's embassy. The threat to repudiate the Vienna Convention, which rules embassy premises ''inviolate'', recalls the US scorn for the Geneva Conventions, which has already opened one can of worms for global relations. Imagine China had made such a declaration when a dissident recently took refuge in the US embassy.

The Assange case does not require a spotless hero for us to be concerned that every citizen be afforded exactly the same rights and protections. The rule of law depends on the fair, consistent and transparent application of the law to every accused person. A nation that unfailingly does so could never credibly be accused of persecution. Assange is the first Australian to be granted asylum for fear of persecution by the US, which has long been a refuge from persecution. That speaks volumes about the tangled web left by the ''war on terror''.


http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/editorial/assange-exploits-decade-of-us-folly-20120817-24e25.html

.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 08:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Re: msolga (Post 5080279)


Quote:
So, if you're only a small country, it's OK to be bullied by a stronger "ally"?


Nope. I didn't say it was okay.

It certainly sounded like you did.

Quote:
Assange offered himself up as the football. Being surprised at being kicked around after doing that is ridiculous. 30 odd miners have been shot dead in South Africa.

Are you a racist Olga?

Are you willfully ignorant, spendius?

Do you support the view that might is automatically right?
Certainly sounds like it to me.
Bugger anyone's human rights if it conflicts with your biases, hey?
Apart from your contention that Julian Assange asked for trouble, how else do you explain your views?
Is this your attitude to all dissenters?


And could you explain .... what does the tragic & unforgivable death of those miners in South Africa have to do with this particular thread, this particular issue, spendius?
Why don't you start a thread about this incident yourself?
Why don't you go to the trouble of doing it, rather than accusing anyone of being "racist" for absolutely no good reason?
(But then, you never start threads do you? You never stick your neck out. That's not your style, is it? )
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 09:30 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
So why is Ecuador mixing it up in all of this?


Partially to stick it to the US, I'd say, Beth. Isn't that way more than a good enough reason?

Quote:
It can't be because they support freedom of speech.


And the USA does? How come they're trying to grab just one of the media organizations that have exposed the sordid crimes and perfidy of the US?

Quote:
Thought I'd take a look at what Human Rights Watch has to say about Ecuador.


Why don't you ever take a look at what the US has done to virtually every country in South America?

The OAS didn't drop the US and Canada because they are kind and wonderful countries.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 10:31 pm
@msolga,
I'd be interesting in some responses to this post, apart from thumbsdowns.
What exactly are you thumbs-downers objecting to?
Don't be "gutless wonders", as we say in Oz.
I've been up-front, why can't you be the same?
Come on, be brave & tell.

Bet you don't, though. Wink
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Aug, 2012 10:51 pm
@msolga,
No response at all?
Then might I respectfully say: you two are not exactly courageous. (To put it ever-so-politely) Wink
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Aug, 2012 04:21 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Do you support the view that might is automatically right?


It's not a view Olga. It's a fact as any evolutionist will explain. I'm the one who has single-handedly opposed the teaching of evolution in schools over eight years on A"K and been traduced for doing so. Hardly a soul dared stick their neck out in my defence.

This whole fiasco is due to fear of American power. Had the cables leaked been Russian the State Department would be laughing about it. When American dignity is outraged watch out.

You don't seriously think that the British judiciary and Foreign Office care a damn about two obviously experienced Swedish loose females getting convenient post-coital regrets do you?

I mentioned the massacre of South African miners to juxtapose the relative injustice of the event to the plight of Assange. He wanted attention and fame and he's got it. They only wanted better working conditions but their being black and working class doesn't exercise the indignation of racist chatterers looking for a vehicle to express their precious moral superiority. That is what it has to do with this thread. Moral relativity in the service of bandwagon jumping.

Quote:
(But then, you never start threads do you? You never stick your neck out. That's not your style, is it? )


What does that have to do with this thread? And I have started 5 threads.

I think Bradley Manning is far more deserving of our concern for the reasons I gave months ago. Assange should have protected him from his own juvenile foolishness instead of throwing him to the wolves safely sitting in their chairs pondering personal ambition. Mr Manning is the only one in this affair who retains his dignity. I hope those who authorised or took a part in his custodial treatment spend their old age in profound remorse. Being a part of a pack of dogs jumping on a lame rabbit is shameful.
Strauss
 
  1  
Reply Sun 19 Aug, 2012 07:56 am
Assange says U.S. must end 'war on whistleblowers' in public address/





The Guardian wrote:
Assange calls for the release of Bradley Manning, the alleged WikiLeaks source, describing him as one of the world's foremost political prisoners.

He goes on to refer to the jailing in Russia of members the feminist punk band, Pussy Riot.

"There is unity in the oppression. There must be absolute unity and determination in the response," adds Assange.
0 Replies
 
 

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