57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:00 pm
@msolga,
very interesting.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:26 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Sure he is but what will be the consequences JT? Do you see it not leading to threats to civil liberties, extensions of state power and various mechanisms of coercion. If it can't be allowed to happen again then there will be a retreat to even more secure compounds.


As vacuous an argument as I've ever come across, Spendi. Let's not expose crimes and misdeeds. If we try to tackle organized crime, they will only get smarter and more brutal. Let's just leave them alone.

Quote:
And what have we learned so far that is of any real interest? What insights have you derived from what has been publicised, as opposed to what hasn't, that have changed you ways of thinking?


Had the digging stopped just after the bungled break in at the Watergate complex, when it seemed there was nothing much going on, it's a bit terrifying to think what may have come to pass.

Not that Watergate did all that much, despite all the fancy talk about how the system works. Subsequent, and this is interesting in and of itself, Republican administrations were even more lawless than Nixon.

Though the Democrats are hardly angels, there hasn't been any Dem administration that has come anywhere close to the lawlessness of Reagan/Bush and Bush/Cheney.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:28 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Do you want to bring down the system?


No, just make it actually work, without the war crimes.

Have you any ideas how to improve our leaders and their agents? Surely they are the best we can find?[/quote]

You jest, Spendi, big time. Blair, Bush are the best we can find. Pull the other one.

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
can lead to a good faith investigation and analysis of the facts and the law which may, in turn, lead to a good faith prosecution of an individual or organization.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:32 pm
I am a bit surprised that Julian Assange hasn't prepared himself better
for the repercussions and obstacles coming his way prior to releasing these cables. Surely, he must have knows that the United States will use its powers
and all resources available to bring him and his wikileaks down. Why did
he use Amazon as a webhost fully knowing that an american company like Amazon will succumb to its government's pressures.

Assange should have gotten his financial resources lined up and made his
escape route resp. his undisclosed location in an area that does not extradite
to the United States. Did he not reckon that once the cables were made
public, that the implications will be very forceful?
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
can lead to a good faith investigation and analysis of the facts and the law which may, in turn, lead to a good faith prosecution of an individual or organization.


Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

Finn knew he had to add "good faith" to make his point seem anywhere close to plausible. Just like the "good faith" prosecutions that the US government has done at Guantanamo, right, Finn?
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:36 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
If he had the noble goal of exposing war criminals and government crimes, why didn't he take care not to endanger lives. He indiscriminately collected and dumped any information he could get his hands on.


I disagree, wandel

Prior to the release of the Wikileaks, Julian Assange had corresponded with US authorities about their possible concerns about the leaks. If they were as concerned about "putting lives at risk" as they keep saying they are, they had the opportunity to assist in vetting the masses of material to ensure that this didn't occur. But they chose not to .

Quote:
The letter from the US state department's legal advisor Harold Koh was a response to correspondence from Mr Assange, who had written to the US ambassador to Britain, Louis Susman.

Mr Assange had asked which individuals would be put at risk by the leak, the state department said.

A senior American official told the BBC that Mr Assange was offering to negotiate over limited redactions.

In response, Mr Koh demanded that Wikileaks return official documents to the US government.

"We will not engage in a negotiation regarding the further release or dissemination of illegally obtained US government classified materials," Mr Koh stated in the letter.

Mr Koh's letter adds that the publication of the documents would endanger the lives of "countless" individuals - from journalists to human rights activists and bloggers - and put US military operations at risk.

Correspondents say the letter is a rare move for the US administration, and reflects the government's concern about the implications of the possible leak.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11856122

Also, Wikileaks released the material only to responsible media organizations like De Spiegel, the Guardian, etc.
And they, in turn, have carefully vetted the available material to ensure that lives would not be put at risk. We have had access to only a tiny proportion of the available material.
The NYTimes, in responses to readers' questions about this concern (in its Q & A blog) said it has chosen not to publish a number of the leaks for that very reason.



JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:40 pm
@Pemerson,
Quote:
U.S. Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell called Assange "a high-tech terrorist." He told NBC's "Meet the Press" he hopes Assange will be prosecuted for the "enormous damage" the disclosures have done to the country and to its relationship with its allies.


How can the press keep reporting this absolutely horrendous hypocritical drivel?

Speaking of high tech terrorists, the USA takes the cake hands down, no questions asked, done deal. I myself, hope that at least some of the worst US/UK/Aus/etc war criminals are prosecuted for the enormous damage they have done to the world and so so so many of its innocent inhabitants.

msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:45 pm
@dyslexia,
Quote:
very interesting.

It is, isn't it?
The Australian government has suddenly rediscovered its own citizens & voters!
And it seems quite a few of them are not happy!
Some very interesting reading in today's letters to the editor/s columns, I can assure you. Wink
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:48 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
If he had the noble goal of exposing war criminals and government crimes, why didn't he take care not to endanger lives. He indiscriminately collected and dumped any information he could get his hands on.


Claptrap, Wandel. That's the first piece of propaganda and I see you've been given the job of dispensing it.

You mean like possibly exposing the names of CIA operatives doing illegal and immoral things in countries all over the world? Or arms dealers who helped supply the Contras in Nicaragua, Afghanistan, ... ?

Is it noble of you to sit silent when the USA has caused the deaths of some one million in Iraq and untold tens/hundreds of thousands in Afghanistan?

Is it noble of you to sit silent while the US continues with their two centuries of war crimes/mass murder/crimes against humanity?

What do you know of noble?

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:48 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Assange made the point in a Guardian online interview that censorship only tightens when vested economic powers feel threatened - I think your Bank of America postulation may be very right.

I've been thinking along much the same lines myself, hinge.

0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:50 pm
@JTT,
Definition of Terrorist
a radical who employs terror as a political weapon; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=terrorist

How typically right wing to pick a word loaded with negative connotation to label someone you don't like - even if it is completely incorrect.

I do like the idea that a leaked dossier about an ambassador's poor dress sense will cause more damage to the USA and its relationships with it's allies than say, I don't know, invading a country in violation of a UN resolution?

hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:53 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Some very interesting reading in today's letters to the editor/s columns


Noticing any differences between the Murdoch and Fairfax stables Olgs?

On Insiders yesterday the whole panel was united against McLelland's outburst - rigthly so, fancy talking about revoking passports and exile before a charge has been determined, let alone laid. Sadly neither Bolt or Akkerman were on so who knows what the loony right think.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn, I'm sorry, but I can't take this exchange any further than I already have.
I've already said all I've wanted to say. I'd just be repeating the same things, over & over.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:56 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
"There is every prospect that national security-sensitive information will be published that will actually prejudice the safety of individuals."


Gee, this asshole should have thought of that before he participated in the illegal invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Quote:
But Mr McClelland says Ms Bishop is giving WikiLeaks the credibility it does not deserve.


And he is giving the war criminal USA credibility that it does not deserve. Might he be worried the other shoe, the real heavy one has yet to hit the floor?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 09:59 pm
@hingehead,
Definition of Terrorist
a radical who employs terror as a political weapon [USA]; usually organizes with other terrorists in small cells [CIA/Contras]; often uses religion as a cover for terrorist activities [USA but only if the democracy line fails]
http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=terrorist
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 10:01 pm
@msolga,
That's Finn's game, Olga. He's simply a voluble Parados.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 10:23 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:

Noticing any differences between the Murdoch and Fairfax stables Olgs?

On Insiders yesterday the whole panel was united against McLelland's outburst - rigthly so, fancy talking about revoking passports and exile before a charge has been determined, let alone laid. Sadly neither Bolt or Akkerman were on so who knows what the loony right think.


I'm yet to do the Australian thing, hinge.
Usually my last port of call. :"So what does Rupert think about all this, hmmmm?"
There are rarely any surprises. Wink

But there are certainly some very angry folk at the Age, SMH & the ABC blogs & letter pages!
I suspect Julia might be getting a bit sweaty about the fallout.

I watched the Insiders weary journos discussing the Sunday papers (see link to video & transcript below)

They seemed generally underwhelmed & amused by the embarrassment caused by the leaks. And our attorney-general talked some unconvincing gobbledygook about Assange. (I noticed he's watered that down today.)

The most exciting bit was this small part of the proceedings.:

Quote:
BILL O'REILLY: Whoever leaked all those State Department documents to the WikiLeaks website is a traitor and should be executed and put in prison for life.


Momma mia! Razz Shocked Wink :

And this:

Quote:
MIKE HUCKABEE: Whoever in our Government leaked that information is guilty of treason and I think anything less than execution is too kind a penalty.

BARRIE CASSIDY: He was a presidential candidate.


http://www.abc.net.au/insiders/content/2010/s3084956.htm


hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 10:40 pm
@msolga,
Yeah, well if you saw the Bill O'Reilly grab on Insiders you now know what Rupert thinks.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2010 10:53 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Yeah, well if you saw the Bill O'Reilly grab on Insiders you now know what Rupert thinks.


Good ol Rupert. Neutral

But (re the O'Reilly grab) How can one be "executed & put in prison for life" ... at the same time?

Sorry ...
No need to answer that.
I was just thinking out loud. Wink
 

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