WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

@BillRM,

Then by all means, ignore away to your heart's content, Bill!
You'll be much happier! Smile

@msolga,

It not that I will be happy but there come a point when dealing with an nut case is a waste of time.......be that nut case of the firm opinion that all black males are evil or that the US is the most evil nation in the history of the world.

The citizens of most of the nations on the planet should in fact be kissing our American fat rears ends for at least the next few hundreds years for blocking them needing to live under the rule of the Empire of the Raising Sun or the Germans or the USSR or................

1 Reply

@BillRM,

You know, Bill, sometimes I've been very interested in particular threads, then have given up on them completely when you & hawk going into your relentless endless posting routine .....

So I guess what's tolerated or not differs from person to person ....

But let's get back to Wikileaks ...

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@msolga,

Quote:

But let's get back to Wikileaks ...

As in Manning looking at paying with most of the remaining of his young life in Prison?

In a way it a damn shame and in the way it is not as he did betrayed his oath and his country in a shameful manner.

Kind of remind me of the case of the young Christopher Boyce during the cold war being given unwise access to one hell of a lot of top secret materials due to a very flawed system.

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@BillRM,

Christopher Boyce.

I guess it depends on whose interests concern you most, Bill?
You understand, as an Australian, my concerns might well be quite different to yours?

If only the likes of Wikileaks had been around at that time, we would know a great deal more about that episode ... which, of course we had every right to!

Quote:

Boyce claims that he began getting misrouted cables from the Central Intelligence Agency discussing the CIA's desire to depose the government of Prime Minister Gough Whitlam in Australia. Boyce claimed the CIA wanted Whitlam removed from office because he wanted to close U.S. military bases in Australia, including the vital Pine Gap secure communications facility, and withdraw Australian troops from Vietnam. Whitlam had also begun making diplomatic overtures to China, as President Richard Nixon had previously done. For these reasons some claim that U.S. government pressure was a major factor in the dismissal of Whitlam as prime minister by the governor general, Sir John Kerr, who according to Boyce was referred to as our man Kerr by CIA officers.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_John_Boyce

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@msolga,

Of course that was his claimed for the moral high ground but he did not try to make that information public but instead sold military secrets to the USSR instead.

Manning could also had make the some of the more morally questionable actions public without doing a massive dump of every US secret he could get his hands on to foreign nationals.

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@BillRM,

I was talking about Boyce's actions from an Australian perspective, Bill.
You do appreciate my concerns?
(He also claimed that he wished to foster peace between the US & the then USSR, but I know much less about that, so ...)

Quote:

Manning could also had make the some of the more morally questionable actions public without doing a massive dump of every US secret he could get his hands on to foreign nationals.

How do you think he could have done that?
And would you accept that some dumped US embassy material (via Wikileaks) would be OK, if that had occurred?

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@msolga,

Sorry but as Boyce once more did not try to passed the information on to the Australian government or the Australian people so I do not see how the Australian perspective would be all that favorable to that young man.

He sold spy satellites hardware information and other such informations to the USSR that if the balloon had gone up during the cold war would had been as harmful to Australian as the US.

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@msolga,

Quote:

How do you think he could have done that?
And would you accept that some dumped US embassy material (via Wikileaks) would be OK, if that had occurred?

Come on the New York Time for example had a history of printing such information see the pentagon papers and anyone can do a dump to a newsgroup and ........

If not hard to post videos to the net after all.

Manning was using some of the materials as an excused for his actions just as Boyce did.

It in any case it would had given him a far better moral if not legal defense for his actions.

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@BillRM,

But we sure found out about the information, Bill!
And you would be surprised ....
Some of us were very grateful to learn what we learned.
As I said earlier, it would have been even better to have learned more about the CIA's attitude & plans for Whitlam.
This was an extremely serious allegation.

So what are your thoughts about my question about Manning above?

1 Reply

@msolga,

Quote:

But we sure found out about the information, Bill!
And you would be surprised ....
Some of us were very grateful to learn what we learned

You did not learn it from Boyce as he was too busy selling hardware secrets to the USSR.

1 Reply

@BillRM,

Quote:

Come on the New York Time for example had a history of printing such information see the pentagon papers and anyone can do a dump to a newsgroup

You know, it's interesting you acknowledge that, Bill, yet carry on about Manning & Wikileaks as if they were so evil in what they did.

The only difference in the case of the Wikileaks was the scale of the revelations, compared to the usual revelations in newspapers (like Woodward & Bernstein's, for example) .
Which is what perfectly responsible newspapers in many countries have done on a regular basis, as part of their function.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

You did not learn it from Boyce as he was too busy selling hardware secrets to the USSR.

We learnt it as a result of what Boyce did.
As we learnt so much (which our governments didn't tell us about) via what what Manning & Wikileaks did.

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@msolga,

The only difference in the case of the Wikileaks was the scale of the revelations, compared to the usual revelations in newspapers (like Woodward & Bernstein's, for example) .

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@BillRM,

???

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@msolga,

Sorry but all governments understand that leaks happens from time to time however the kind of massive leaks with many private government to government conversations included was unheard before this point in time.

It harm the willingness of others governments to enter into frank conversations and therefore was harmful to our whole foreign relationships.

Note we cut the UK out of a lot of intelligent sharing and the nuclear program after WW2 due to their leaking one hell of a lot of information to the USSR.

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@BillRM,

Oh that say nothing about individuals and non-government movements willingness to tell us anything that they would not wish to read in the newspapers.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Ignore is a wonderful function

It certainly seems to keep a lot of Americans mentally cloistered. Have you ever noticed that, Bill? That would be those from the land of the brave. Pretty outrageous that, ain't it?

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@JTT,

Bill is sort of arguing that it's okay to only murder one or two people but wrong to get into double figures.

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@BillRM,

Quote:

Note we cut the UK out of a lot of intelligent[sic] sharing

The word that you're searching for would be 'intelligence', Bill and it was more likely a matter of you simply not being able to keep pace. Smile

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WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

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