57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 10:10 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

Quote:
The Wikileaks Diversion
(Arthur Kobina Kennedy, 19th September, 2011, University of Cape Coast)

Over the last couple of weeks, Ghana’s media, political establishment and punditocracy have been obsessed with wikileaks. It is as if nothing else of importance is happening.

<snip>

Indeed, to be blunt, for the most part, the wikileaks cables consist of nothing more than wicked and idle gossip by Ghanaians about other Ghanaians reported by American diplomats to the State department. Somehow, it appears that just because these gossips were then put in diplomatic cables, they have attained the status of incontrovertible facts.

<snip>

What our political leaders do not realize is that the more a party uses wikileaks to attack other parties and leaders, the more credible they make wikileaks.

<snip>

Why are these wicked wiki-leaks rumours more important than our parties not filing statements of accounts with the Electoral Commission as required by our laws?

<snip>

First, we must stop treating wikileaks like Biblical verses. It is just gossip.

<snip>
We need our two major parties to stop focusing on wikileaks and start debating how to get our people working and going to school. The exchange of insults based on wikileaks will never get a job for one unemployed young person or educate a child or prevent an accident.

<snip>



the conflation of wikileaks with diplomatic cables continues



JTT
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 10:14 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
the conflation of wikileaks with diplomatic cables continues


Indeed! Were a poll to be taken, probably the majority of Americans would think that WLs created all this, if they even knew what WLs was. Or else they would blame Saddam.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 10:41 am
Why Wikileaks must be protected

John Pilger
19 August 2010

In his latest column for the New Statesman, John Pilger describes the importance of Wikileaks as a new and fearless form of investigative journalism that threatens both the war-makers and their apologists, notably journalists who are state stenographers.

On 26 July, Wikileaks released thousands of secret US military files on the war in Afghanistan. Cover-ups, a secret assassination unit and the killing of civilians are documented. In file after file, the brutalities echo the colonial past. From Malaya and Vietnam to Bloody Sunday and Basra, little has changed. The difference is that today there is an extraordinary way of knowing how faraway societies are routinely ravaged in our name. Wikileaks has acquired records of six years of civilian killing for both Afghanistan and Iraq, of which those published in the Guardian, Der Spiegel and the New York Times are a fraction.

There is understandably hysteria on high, with demands that the Wikileaks founder Julian Assange is “hunted down” and “rendered”. In Washington, I interviewed a senior Defence Department official and asked, “Can you give a guarantee that the editors of Wikileaks and the editor in chief, who is not American, will not be subjected to the kind of manhunt that we read about in the media?” He replied, “It’s not my position to give guarantees on anything”. He referred me to the “ongoing criminal investigation” of a US soldier, Bradley Manning, an alleged whistleblower.

In a nation that claims its constitution protects truth-tellers, the Obama administration is pursuing and prosecuting more whistleblowers than any of its modern predecessors. A Pentagon document states bluntly that US intelligence intends to “fatally marginalise” Wikileaks. The preferred tactic is smear, with corporate journalists ever ready to play their part.

On 31 July, the American celebrity reporter Christiane Amanapour interviewed Secretary of Defence Robert Gates on the ABC network. She invited Gates to describe to her viewers his “anger” at Wikileaks. She echoed the Pentagon line that “this leak has blood on its hands”, thereby cueing Gates to find Wikileaks “guilty” of “moral culpability”. Such hypocrisy coming from a regime drenched in the blood of the people of Afghanistan and Iraq – as its own files make clear – is apparently not for journalistic enquiry. This is hardly surprising now that a new and fearless form of public accountability, which Wikileaks represents, threatens not only the war-makers but their apologists.

Has anyone seen Art or WandelJW?


Their current propaganda is that Wikileaks is “irresponsible”.

Earlier this year, before it released the cockpit video of an American Apache gunship killing 19 civilians in Iraq, including journalists and children, Wikileaks sent people to Baghdad to find the families of the victims in order to prepare them.

WikiLeaks is "irresponsible" but waging two completely unjustified and illegal invasions of two sovereign nations constitutes "responsible"? Gunning down innocent civilians, and this Apache incident is but the tiniest blip in a century plus of much larger, much more horrific incidents of "the US and its assassins gunnnig down innocent civilians.

Has anyone seen WandelJW or Art?


Prior to the release of last month’s Afghan War Logs, Wikileaks wrote to the White House asking that it identify names that might draw reprisals. There was no reply.

More than 15,000 files were withheld and these, says Assange, will not be released until they have been scrutinised “line by line” so that names of those at risk can be deleted.

The pressure on Assange himself seems unrelenting. In his homeland, Australia, the shadow foreign minister, Julie Bishop, has said that if her right-wing coalition wins the general election on 21 August, “appropriate action” will be taken “if an Australian citizen has deliberately undertake an activity that could put at risk the lives of Australian forces in Afghanistan or undermine our operations in any way”. The Australian role in Afghanistan, effectively mercenary in the service of Washington, has produced two striking results: the massacre of five children in a village in Oruzgan province and the overwhelming disapproval of the majority of Australians.

Last May, following the release of the Apache footage, Assange had his Australian passport temporarily confiscated when he returned home. The Labor government in Canberra denies it has received requests from Washington to detain him and spy on the Wikileaks network. The Cameron government also denies this. They would, wouldn’t they? Assange, who came to London last month to work on exposing the war logs, has had to leave Britain hastily for, as puts it, “safer climes”.

On 16 August, the Guardian, citing Daniel Ellsberg, described the great Israeli whistleblower Mordechai Vanunu as “the pre-eminent hero of the nuclear age”. Vanunu, who alerted the world to Israel’s secret nuclear weapons, was kidnapped by the Israelis and incarcerated for 18 years after he was left unprotected by the London Sunday Times, which had published the documents he supplied. In 1983, another heroic whistleblower, Sarah Tisdall, a Foreign Office clerical officer, sent documents to the Guardian that disclosed how the Thatcher government planned to spin the arrival of American cruise missiles in Britain. The Guardian complied with a court order to hand over the documents, and Tisdall went to prison.

In one sense, the Wikileaks revelations shame the dominant section of journalism devoted merely to taking down what cynical and malign power tells it. This is state stenography, not journalism. Look on the Wikileaks site and read a Ministry of Defence document that describes the “threat” of real journalism. And so it should be a threat. Having published skilfully the Wikileaks expose of a fraudulent war, the Guardian should now give its most powerful and unreserved editorial support to the protection of Julian Assange and his colleagues, whose truth-telling is as important as any in my lifetime.

I like Julian Assange’s dust-dry wit. When I asked him if it was more difficult to publish secret information in Britain, he replied, “When we look at Official Secrets Act labelled documents we see that they state it is offence to retain the information and an offence to destroy the information. So the only possible outcome we have is to publish the information.”

http://www.johnpilger.com/articles/why-wikileaks-must-be-protected
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 10:43 am
@CalamityJane,
ahh found it
I wasn't sure where the Robin Hood thing was coming from

CalamityJane wrote:

It's all over facebook now and the followers who will boycott Amazon is huge!

As I said in the beginning of this thread, Julian Assagne is a modern "Robin Hood" and he's got all the sympathies of the people around the world (sans many Americans of course).


Assange isn't someone I can appreciate. I'm more of a Manning-appreciator, particularly after having read the NYMag piece on him some months ago.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 02:03 pm
@spendius,
Hah, here's a time I fully agree with Spendius. Mark the day..


Well, I do as far as what he said. But I do think there is a reason for secrecy on some government situations; and for less secrecy/more openness on others. I'm personally not the one to best select which situations fit into which of those categories, but have qualms about which minders would make those decisions.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 02:26 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:
If you don't believe you have robin hood notions about WL, fine.


I know I don't have robin hood notions about WL.

I've always thought the title of this thread was somewhat misleading. The issue - for me - is not WL, it is the actual content of the diplomatic cables and what happened/did not happen/was promised as a result of the original cables.

As was mentioned in the first half-dozen or so pages of this thread, and more recently by Spendius, the release was bound to happen. The details of the release are not of particular interest to me. I'm not denying they may be interesting to others.

What is of interest/importance to me is the content of the cables. Secondarily, my interest is in what is happening to Manning.
failures art
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 03:11 pm
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

failures art wrote:
If you don't believe you have robin hood notions about WL, fine.


I know I don't have robin hood notions about WL.

ehBeth wrote:
I see jw and f'art and others of their type as trying to divert people from what the actual issues are by focussing on irrelevancies.

Don't assign motives and mentalities to others then complain about the one assigned to you. As for Robin Hood mentalities, I think you've subscribed more than you admit. You think this information should be out, and don't care for the means in which it gets out. Robin Hood is a metaphor for a justice done outside of legal parameters. i.e. - Not caring about the means.

The Sheriff of Nottingham (the USG) may be keeping your wealth (information) from you. So a Robin Hood (WL/Assange) comes along and takes from the rich (gets leaks information), and gives to the poor (public). The problem of course is that Robin Hood never took for the rich, then slowly trickled out the gold bit by bit for a drawn out effect. If he had, it would have been hard to say that his primary motive was to help the people, as much as it was to be a thorn in the Sheriff's side. But hey, we all hate the Sheriff, so who cares right?

Also Beth, what is my "type" that you refer? Get over yourself. You aren't the arbiter of what is a "real issue" and what is an "irrelevancy." You've got one hell of an ego.

ehBeth wrote:

I've always thought the title of this thread was somewhat misleading. The issue - for me - is not WL, it is the actual content of the diplomatic cables and what happened/did not happen/was promised as a result of the original cables.

Yes, and much of that has been discussed. The content of specific cables has been examined and their impact/implications has been explored. It's not as if this has not been done, nor that it does not continue to happen.

ehBeth wrote:

As was mentioned in the first half-dozen or so pages of this thread, and more recently by Spendius, the release was bound to happen. The details of the release are not of particular interest to me. I'm not denying they may be interesting to others.

"Interesting" is far from "irrelevant." I too agree that the full release was probably inevitable. In fact, that was supposed to be the goal from day one, right?

What I was unsure about was whether names would be redacted for non-state individuals who might be put at risk.

ehBeth wrote:

What is of interest/importance to me is the content of the cables. Secondarily, my interest is in what is happening to Manning.

Both are of interest to me as well. I don't think either of the above are outside of anyone's interest here in the thread. Has anyone said otherwise?

A
R
T
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 03:16 pm
@ehBeth,
I thought that the point of the writer from Ghana was that the information in the cables was unsubstantiated gossip. A lower-level foreign service officer reports any gossip he hears from citizens of the country where he is stationed. The State Department would only try to corroborate the gossip if it is important.

Traditional journalists would only publicize gossip that has been corroborated by several sources. Wikileaks does not have this safeguard. Wikileaks provides information from cables without corroborating anything.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 03:55 pm
@ehBeth,
My point of view, expressed long ago to Msolga, is that this thread has turned to a discussion of the process, and that individual leaks deserve threads of their own. Has anyone started one?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 04:55 pm
@wandeljw,
Diplomats cabling unsubstantiated gossip into cyberspace should know the risks. Overloading the reception centre with it is just one of them. He could be sending grudge tittle-tattle for no other reason than that one of his pals could have a "job" attempting to corroborate it.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 07:51 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I thought that the point of the writer from Ghana was that the information in the cables was unsubstantiated gossip. A lower-level foreign service officer reports any gossip he hears from citizens of the country where he is stationed. The State Department would only try to corroborate the gossip if it is important.

Traditional journalists would only publicize gossip that has been corroborated by several sources. Wikileaks does not have this safeguard. Wikileaks provides information from cables without corroborating anything.

But, wandel, surely not all the Wikileaks-released information, published even by traditional journalists up till now, has been "unsubstantiated gossip"?
Surely we don't need to go on repeating, ad infinitum, the many examples of the valuable information we have learned about, and which would still be secret now if not for the Wikileaks, as evidence of that?

Whether the leaked information is corroborated by the state department or not, is irrelevant, in many cases. What is relevant is that we now (courtesy of Wikileaks & Bradley Manning) have access to information that we would otherwise not have, which we had every right to have.

How many other "reliable sources" of information do we require to legitimize the leaked official information that, for example, the US conducted secret drone attacks in Yemen?

As to the article from Ghana you posted.....
Arthur Kenndey, the a politician who wrote the article, argued that Ghanaians should stop focusing on the Wikleaks & focus on the business of government instead.

Given that he was the subject of Ghanaian Wikileaks (allegations of bribery for political ends during the 2008 election) , it's hardly surprising that he would argue that way, rather than address the allegations of corruption contained in the leaks. .
To argue that he was addressing "unsubstantiated gossip" is, well .... a bit of the mark! Wink

Quote:
A New Patriotic Party presidential candidate in the 2008 elections has categorically denied bribing Pollster Ben Ephson to conduct an opinion poll in his favour.

Arthur Kennedy is one of four candidates mentioned by the NPP’s Youth Organiser, Anthony Karbo as offering monies to the pollster to conduct the opinion polls but Kennedy is unimpressed and has issued a disclaimer.

He told Joy News’ Bernard Saibu “I will bear no false evidence” for anybody.

Ben Ephson had confirmed a wikileaks report which suggested he had told an American diplomat that a confidante to the NPP flag bearer and the Executive Director of the Danquah Institute Gabby Asare Otchere Darko had attempted to bribe him with $20,000 to conduct a poll that will favour Nana Akufo-Addo in the 2008 general elections run-off. .....


http://ghanapolitics.net/Political-News/arthur-k-i-will-bear-no-false-evidence-for-karbo.html

I would argue that most of us don't know nearly enough about the context of most of these examples of opinion pieces you've posted from Ghana, Ethiopia , etc, to be able to have anything resembling a meaningful discussion about them ...
You've provided selective examples of local opinion, which are unflattering or detrimental to Wiklileaks, wandel.
Why not post a few examples of local opinion expressing the other side of the coin (I'm sure they exist), plus a few examples of the local issues which prompted these opinion articles, as well?
I think we'd have a much more meaningful discussion here if you did that.


wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 09:49 pm
@msolga,
You raise very good points, msolga.

I am one of those who prefers traditional journalism with its safeguards. A kind view of me would be that I am quaint and old-fashioned. (I doubt JTT will be kind, though.)

My interest in Wikileaks is the issue of whether it can still be considered journalism or not. Earlier in this thread, I agreed that Wikileaks was a type of journalism. With the chaotic turn of events a few weeks ago, I now doubt that this represents any type of journalism. Previously, Wikileaks relied on mainstream news media to do responsible redactions.
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2011 10:09 pm
@wandeljw,
Wandel, I hope it's clear that I'm am not arguing that anything about Wikileaks-related issues should not be presented & discussed here.
What I'm hoping for is a more meaningful exploration of the issues you choose to raise.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 10:07 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I am one of those who prefers traditional journalism with its safeguards. A kind view of me would be that I am quaint and old-fashioned.


Quaint and old fashioned certainly doesn't entail wholesale acceptance of crimes and terrorism perpetrated by the US government, JW. The safeguards of traditional journalism are pointed heavily at protecting those who commit these horrific acts.

Think about it, JW. How many innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan have paid a price that they needn't have paid and we don't hear the "traditional" lot demanding, yes demanding that these criminals be held to account.

Your claims of being quaint and old fashioned seem pretty damn flimsy when, you too, show no respect for the rule of law, show no respect for human life, show no respect for human decency.

Had this been a bunch of rogue policemen rushing into some poor neighborhood and gunning down people left and right, spreading depleted uranium around, using white phosphorus on ANYBODY, what would your response be?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 10:11 am
@JTT,
For me, both you and spendius are easy to predict.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 10:29 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
For me, both you and spendius are easy to predict.


Does "quaint" and "old fashioned" also entail being completely dishonest, JW?

I doubt whether either of us would have been able to predict you actually avoiding the central issues. While I can't speak for Spendi, this comes as a complete shock to me.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:01 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
For me, both you and spendius are easy to predict.


You can hardly predict football results better that Coin Toss.

I bet you didn't predict my wasp persecution post.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:14 am
@spendius,
And your chances of predicting my last acronym were zero.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 11:24 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:
You aren't the arbiter of what is a "real issue" and what is an "irrelevancy." You've got one hell of an ego.

[
ehBeth wrote:

What is of interest/importance to me is the content of the cables. Secondarily, my interest is in what is happening to Manning.



I certainly am the arbiter of what is of interest/importance to me. That is why I make an effort to note "what is important ... to me" in my comments here. I try not to say "what is important is".

I have acknowledged that other people value other parts of this - i.e. the process v the content.

I may be wrong about your intent in this thread, but I have the right to comment on what I perceive it to be - just as you have the right to comment on your perception of my posts and my ego.

spendius
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2011 12:32 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
I certainly am the arbiter of what is of interest/importance to me.


How on earth did you ever get out of cream cakes, skipping ropes and fashioning daisy chains beth?
0 Replies
 
 

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