57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:42 am
@wandeljw,
I'll let you go first, wandel.
What are you thoughts about this?

(I'd also be interested in your responses to my comments on your previous dispatch on the Dan Tynan article.)
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:46 am
@msolga,
Thanks, msolga. My thoughts are generally simple-minded. The Kashmir political party seems to resent Wikileaks disclosures as just another example of the arrogance of "American journalism."

EDIT: I agree with Dan Tynan that releasing names of dissidents is dangerous. He also points out that we may never find out the actual harm because oppressive regimes keep their executions secret.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:52 am
@msolga,
They don't seem to be able to tell the difference between diplomats (who actually say/write the words they're objecting to) and journalists.

Hard to take their comments seriously from that point forward.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:56 am
@wandeljw,
That seems a rather strange response, given that the leaks weren't written by journalists at all, but are records of US embassy tapes.

I can understand, however, the upset at Kashmir politics being described in this way by the ambassador ....

Quote:
...While referring to a 2006 leaked cable, in which the then US ambassador to India, David Mulford, allegedly describes politics in Kashmir as “filthy as Dal lake,” the Hurriyat faction has lambasted “American journalists” for the comparison.

The amalgam added that the “terminology used in the Wikileaks disclosures is painful and misplaced, and amounts to violating journalistic ethics.”

“The comparison reflects the arrogant, pretentious and dominating attitude of the American journalists towards international affairs,” it said in a statement issued here. ....
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:57 am
@ehBeth,
Yes.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 10:03 am
@wandeljw,
Well, as you would have read, wandel, I don't think he made a very good case at all. Actually I was wondering if you had any response to my comments on the article.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 10:10 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
While referring to a 2006 leaked cable, in which the then US ambassador to India, David Mulford, allegedly describes politics in Kashmir as “filthy as Dal lake,” the Hurriyat faction has lambasted “American journalists” for the comparison.

Wiki disclosures at 'odds with press freedom': Hurriyat (M)
(Kashmir Dispatch, September 7, 2011)

Post: # 4,723,871 wandeljw



Quote:
My thoughts are generally simple-minded.


Surely, JW, you're not so simple minded that you can't see the stunning hypocrisy found in virtually every one of your pieces of propaganda.

Quote:
EDIT: I agree with Dan Tynan that releasing names of dissidents is dangerous. He also points out that we may never find out the actual harm because oppressive regimes keep their executions secret.


As opposed to the US, right, JW that has a website describing where each illegal rendition is being tortured, where it lists the names of the tens of thousands of Vietnamese who filled US torture chambers, the same for Nicaragua, Guatemala, Chile, Cambodia, Laos, the Philippines, Korea, Iran, Ira, Afghanistan.

Are you at all familiar with the word 'hypocrisy', JW?

And the CIA website - they are doing YouTube style videos of their past highlights, but they're keeping them on a special website so that they can reap any profits down the road.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:43 pm
A view on Wikileaks from Ghana:

Quote:
Ghanaians have overrated wikileaks - Kweku Baako
(Akuamoah Boateng/Adom News/Ghana/ September 7, 2011)

The Managing Editor for the New Crusading Guide newspaper, Abdul Malik Kweku Baako says Ghanaians have overrated information contained in the Wikileaks cables.

According to Kweku Baako the wikileaks cables should be interrogated before it can be considered as factually reliable, since one cannot make a judgement based on the information from the wikileaks cable.

Abdul Malik Kweku Baako said this in an interview on Adom Fm’s Dwaso Nsem on Tuesday.

Kweku Baako said “what I see is a very uneducated, ignorant attempt to do uncritical mass consumption of whatever is contained in the wikileaks and then the repugnant selective application of the leaks for partisan propaganda purposes.

"So that distortion and uneducated approach has constituted a mess and for that matter we are messing ourselves up”.

He said “the wikileaks cable should not be consumed as the gospel truth and it does not mean we should be selective in applying it for parochial propaganda purposes”, adding “we are doing a lot of injustice to ourselves as a nation”.

On Kwesi Pratt’s denial of telling US Embassy officials that Nana Akufo-Addo used to smoke marijuana, Kweku Baako said he had called Kwesi Pratt a day before newspaper publications of the wikileaks during which Kwesi Pratt denied the claim.

But speaking on Adom FM’s Dwaso Nsem on Monday, 5th September 2011, Kwesi Pratt said he could not remember telling the Americans Nana Akufo-Addo smoked marijuana.

Kweku Baako however, said Kwesi Pratt Jnr. has a high retentive memory which makes it difficult for him (Baako) to believe that Kwesi Pratt Jnr. could forget something he said three years ago.

Dr. Emmanuel Akwetey, Executive Director for the Institute for Democratic Governance has blamed the mess created by the leaked cables on the inability of the Ghanaian especially leaders, to guard against comments and statements they make to diplomats.

Dr. Akwetey noted with sadness the politicisation of the publications which he said had resulted from the polarisation of issues.

“This senseless politics is affecting us, if we continue to leak out our secrets because of divisiveness, how will we manage the information?” he questioned.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 01:52 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
adding “we are doing a lot of injustice to ourselves as a nation”.


How come he can be honest, but you can't, JW?
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 02:09 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
According to Kweku Baako the wikileaks cables should be interrogated before it can be considered as factually reliable, since one cannot make a judgement based on the information from the wikileaks cable.


There's likely some truth in that.

However,

Quote:
The black-and-white video images of the dusty streets of Baghdad are grainy and shaky but they are clear enough to show American helicopter gunships carrying out an unprovoked attack that killed a dozen Iraqis, including two employees of the Reuters news agency.

In the leaked footage, taken from an Apache gunship, pilots could be heard revelling after the shooting, with comments like "Oh yeah, look at those dead bastards" and "Ha, ha, I hit them". After the firing of a Hellfire missile, a pilot is heard saying: "Look at that bitch go!" And news that two girls had been badly injured was greeted with: "Well, it's their fault for bringing their kids into a battle."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/the-pictures-that-prove-us-helicopter-gunships-opened-fire-on-iraqi-civilians-1937595.html


0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 06:52 pm
@msolga,
... speaking of government secrecy & cover-ups ....

Some heartening & well overdue official scrutiny of the abhorrent practice of "extraordinary rendition" practiced the CIA & secretly condoned by some western governments during "the war on terror".

The Council of Europe (Europe's "watch dog" body) has completed it's investigation and its report is due to be presented to the Parliamentary Assembly.

Interestingly, the report comes out in support of Bradley Manning for his role in exposing rendition & also Wikileaks, for its role in publishing the information supplied by Manning.

Also of interest, the report makes a clear distinction between "terror suspects" & "whistle blowers" arguing that Manning was the latter & should be protected as such.

I really hope that this report leads to further scrutiny of our governments' (including my own) shameful complicity in the CIA's rendition activities, which of course would be illegal in our own countries.

I also hope that this report reminds us (& our mainstream media outlets .... hello?) that Bradley Manning has been locked up in a US military prison without a trial for far too long now. Surely he is well overdue for his day in court?

Surely that is how western democracies properly deal with citizens who they believe have broken their laws?

Quote:
Dick Marty rendition report condemns 'cult of secrecy'
7 September 2011 Last updated at 16:05 GMT/BBC news

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/55212000/jpg/_55212647_009954016-1.jpg
Bradley Manning (undated photo) Bradley Manning was arrested in 2010

A report for Europe's human rights watchdog has called for greater scrutiny of secret services and support for whistleblowers.

The Council of Europe investigated how countries like Britain, Germany, Romania and Lithuania assisted the US with the rendition of terror suspects.

It said a "cult of secrecy" had helped Western governments cover up abuses.

Defending "whistleblowers", it singled out US soldier Bradley Manning, accused of passing secrets to Wikileaks.

He had "acted as a whistleblower and should be treated as such", CoE rapporteur Dick Marty wrote in the report, which was due to be submitted to the CoE's Parliamentary Assembly.

The soldier is currently in a US military prison awaiting trial for passing restricted material to the controversial website.

But the report praised Mr Manning, and Wikileaks itself, for uncovering evidence of rendition.

The CoE represents 47 member-states, including both EU countries and Russia and other ex-Soviet states.

Mr Marty's report focused on the record of Western states, explaining that it was based on investigations into European links to the controversial US policy of "rendition" for terrorism suspects.

The CIA allegedly flew terror suspects around the world for interrogation in the years after 9/11, holding them in secret prisons in Europe and elsewhere.

'No licence to kill'

In his 48-page report - entitled Abuse of State Secrecy and National Security - Mr Marty looked at the level of control exercised by European states over their security services.

Quote:
"We therefore join Amnesty International in expressing our worries as to the treatment he [Bradley Manning] receives”


He urged all states to use independent parliamentary committees to oversee the work of their secret services, saying this was of "vital importance for the rule of law and democracy".

Mr Marty argued that Western governments were using the notion of state secrecy to shield their intelligence services from accountability for serious violations committed during anti-terrorist operations.

"We consider that this is simply unacceptable..." he wrote. ....<cont>


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14820145
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:23 pm
@msolga,
With the limited information I have about Manning, he's one of the good guys; brave enough to reveal the criminal activities of our government - knowing full well what the consequences could be. He has my admiration. He deserves something one step above the Medal of Honor.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:29 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
With the limited information I have about Manning, he's one of the good guys; brave enough to reveal the criminal activities of our government - knowing full well what the consequences could be. He has my admiration. He deserves something one step above the Medal of Honor.



Where the hell is the standing ovation emoticon?

clap clap clap until long after the cows come home!!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:41 pm
@msolga,
One of the reasons I first became aware of "extraordinary rendition", fairly early in the piece...
An Australian citizen, Mamdouh Habib, was the victim of it.

The (then Howard) government, for years, denied an any knowledge of, or complicity with, the CIA in his rendition to Egypt & the torture he experienced there (at the hands of none other than Omar Suleiman!). Which was followed by detention at Guantanamo Bay.

However, after a long hard fight for justice, he has now been compensated by the Australian government, after years of being publicly demonized as a liar & a " terrorist" by the very government that should have protected his rights as an Australian citizen.

How did we eventually find out the truth about what happened to him, despite government secrecy , relentless lies & cover-ups?
Wikileaks, Al Jazeera & the Washington Post.

Quote:
....The extraordinary rendition program landed some people in CIA black sites - and others were turned over for torture-by-proxy to other regimes. Egypt figured large as a torture destination of choice, as did Suleiman as Egypt’s torturer-in-chief. At least one person extraordinarily rendered by the CIA to Egypt — Egyptian-born Australian citizen Mamdouh Habib — was reportedly tortured by Suleiman himself.

..... Frustrated that Habib was not providing useful information or confessing to involvement in terrorism, Suleiman ordered a guard to murder a shackled prisoner in front of Habib, which he did with a vicious karate kick. In April 2002, after five months in Egypt, Habib was rendered to American custody at Bagram prison in Afghanistan - and then transported to Guantanamo. On January 11, 2005, the day before he was scheduled to be charged, Dana Priest of the Washington Post published an exposé about Habib’s torture. The US government immediately announced that he would not be charged and would be repatriated to Australia.....


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/02/201127114827382865.html
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:57 pm
@msolga,
The recent Frontline documentary did show that there were genuine ideals behind Manning's actions.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 07:58 pm
@msolga,
You still don't get it, Ms O. All of this is completely unimportant.

The really important issue, the thing that we should all be more worried about is all the informers who passed false information to the CIA/US government so that these illegal renditions could take place.

Imagine what might happen if they are exposed - whisked off to the US, a cushy job, American citizenship for valor above and beyond, maybe a book or movie deal, visits to the WH, ... .
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 08:06 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
...the limited information I have about Manning

I don't know if you saw this, when I posted this video on this thread in February of this year, ci.

It's a "special", made by the Four Corners program on the ABC in Oz ... (the ABC is the national broadcaster.)
Fascinating, if you know little about the background to the "Manning story".

I hope it still works (it may not), because it's well worth a look.
Or may work in Oz, but not the US, I don't know ...

As to the "evidence" supplied by Adrian Lamo ... well what can you say?
I find it rather amazing (understatement) that this man was taken seriously at all!

http://www.abc.net.au/4corners/special_eds/20110214/leaks/default.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 08:34 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You still don't get it, Ms O.

Look here, JTT, I'm doing my best, OK?
Trying to connect the various dots & make sense of it all with an ever-shrinking information base is not easy! Wink
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 08:42 pm
@wandeljw,
Can you tell me how I can access the Frontline documentary, please, wandel?
I'd be very interested to see it.
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Wed 7 Sep, 2011 09:07 pm
@msolga,
It may still be available for viewing on the PBS website. I will be back with a link.

Try this link: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/wikileaks/

 

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