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WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 08:41 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
WIKILEAKS' founder Julian Assange will not be prosecuted despite breaking Australian law and identifying an ASIO officer, according to the Attorney General's office.

Well, if this is correct, it's all been a bit of a storm in a tea cup, hasn't it?

All those articles in the Guardian, NYT, etc, which suggested Julian Assange faced Wikileaks-related charges "in his own country" .....

I suspect, if the government did decide to prosecute Assange, it might prove more embarrassing for ASIO (The Australian Security Intelligence Organisation) & the government than Assange .... as details of the offending Wikileak/s would be aired in court of law. I suspect the government & ASIO would much prefer that didn't occur, for pretty obvious reasons.

However, it would not be the content of the one Wikileak that the attorney-general has made such a song & dance about, which would supply the grounds for Assange's prosecution.
It is that an ASIO officer has been identified in the leak . For that, the penalty is gaol.
A pretty curious state of affairs:

Quote:
Under s.92 of the ASIO Act, publicly identifying an ASIO officer other than the Director-General is a crime punishable with imprisonment for one year. There was immediate speculation that Julian Assange could be prosecuted in Australia under the Act.

Why the blanket ban on identifying anyone in ASIO? A prohibition on ASIO officers working undercover would make sense, but the entire organisation, from the senior executive down? It applies even to their media liaison team.

Not even the American intelligence community has such a ban. In the US, only the identification of covert agents (but not other agents) is prohibited under the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982. But the ban itself only applies to people who have “authorised access to classified material” — that is, people in the intelligence community already, or in senior levels of government. .....

http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/09/05/wikileaks-and-the-real-rules-of-disclosing-classified-information/


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 09:03 am
@wandeljw,
Quote:
a US State Department spokeswoman declared WikiLeaks was continuing ''its well established pattern of irresponsible, reckless and, frankly, dangerous actions''.


I think that this particular meme has been replayed at least hundreds of times. HYPOCRISY of the highest order! Not to mention propaganda that would have made Goebbels proud.

Quote:
Most concern yesterday centred on people who live under violent regimes who had risked their safety to provide information to US diplomats.


So these people would then be treated like Bradley Manning. What's the beef?


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 09:43 am
Why WikiLeaks is necessary.

Quote:
WikiLeaks disclosure reopens Iraqi inquiry into massacre of family

Investigation to look into allegations that US soldiers handcuffed and executed women and children during a raid in 2006


The Iraqi government is to launch a new investigation into one of the most controversial incidents of the Iraq war, after the release of a diplomatic cable alleging that US soldiers handcuffed and executed women and children during a 2006 raid.

The troops were also accused of calling in an air strike to destroy evidence.

An adviser to the Iraqi prime minister, Nouri al-Maliki, said on Friday that previous inquiries had stalled but the government would revive its investigation as a result of the new information.

In 2006 there were conflicting accounts of what had happened at Ishaqi village, north of Baghdad; troops said nothing inappropriate had taken place, but villagers suggested the deaths had been a revenge attack for the earlier killing of two soldiers.

A diplomatic cable released this week by WikiLeaks revealed that a United Nations official, Philip Alston, told the US in 2006 he had received information that all the residents of the house had been shot in the head. His intervention was not made public at the time.

The letter has inflamed opinion in Iraq at a sensitive time in US-Iraq relations, amid difficult negotiations over retention of US bases in Iraq after the scheduled departure of US troops in December.

Iraqi officials said the new information was sufficient cause to deny the Americans any bases and demand all troops leave.

"The new report about this crime will have its impact on signing any new agreement," an Iraqi parliamentarian, Aliya Nusayif, told the AP. She said Iraq's parliament would investigate and seek to prosecute any US soldiers who commit crimes in Iraq in the future.

As part of the negotiations over keeping US troops in Iraq, Washington is demanding immunity for all US military personnel. But Maliki's spokesman, Ali al-Moussawi, said: "We will not give up the rights of the Iraqi people, and this subject will be followed."

The leaked state department memo, dated 27 March, 12 days after the incident, says that the US mission in Geneva had received a letter from Alston, the UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions. In his letter, Alston said he had received various reports on the killings, and the dead included Faiz Hratt Khalaf, 28, his wife, three children, his mother, sister, two nieces, a three-year-old and a visiting relative.

"According to the information received, American troops approached Mr Faiz's home in the early hours of 15 March 2006. It would appear that when the MNF [multinational forces] approached the house, shots were fired from it and a confrontation ensued for some 25 minutes. The MNF troops entered the house, handcuffed all residents and executed all of them. After the initial MNF intervention, a US air raid ensued that destroyed the house," Alston wrote. He added: "Iraqi TV stations broadcast from the scene and showed bodies of the victims (ie five children and four women) in the morgue of Tikrit. Autopsies carried out at the Tikrit hospital's morgue revealed that all corpses were shot in the head and handcuffed."

Alston, who is now a professor at New York university, told a reporter for the McClatchy group of newspapers that the US had not responded to his letter – as was "the case with most of the letters in the 2006-2007 period", when sectarian and other violence was at its height. The Iraqi government had not responded either.

"The tragedy," he said, "is that this elaborate system of communications is in place but the (UN) human rights council does nothing to follow up when states ignore issues raised with them."

The Pentagon claims the civilians were killed in the air raid but the villagers say the air raid came after the killings. Three months after the attack, the Pentagon said it had conducted its own investigation and the allegations of the execution were absolutely false and there had been no cover-up.

Lieutenant-Colonel James Gregory, a Pentagon spokesman, responding to the Alston letter and the Iraqi government announcement that it is to revive its inquiry, said on Friday: "The incident was properly investigated at the time and no new information has surfaced."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/02/wikileaks-iraq-massacre-inquiry


The Pentagon claims the civilians were killed in the air raid but the villagers say the air raid came after the killings. Three months after the attack, the Pentagon said it had conducted its own investigation and the allegations of the execution were absolutely false and there had been no cover-up.

Why, oh why do they continue to print this same tripe from a source that has been one massive cover up after another since its inception.

Here is what the Guardian and all other newspapers should write, in order to be accurate:

The Pentagon, lying sacks of **** that they have always been, claims the civilians were killed in the air raid but the villagers say the air raid came after the killings. Three months after the attack, the Pentagon said it had conducted its own cover up and the allegations of the execution were absolutely false and there had been no cover-up.

Are there no honest Americans out there willing to speak up?
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 09:55 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

failures art wrote:
Information is certainly powerful. We've witnessed this firsthand. Using that power, without knowing it's full depth is irresponsible. Now that WL has lost control of the cables, there can be no real hope of controlling how the information is used. It cannot be said that the information can only be used for good.


governments should have recognized the danger and considered how to manage things at least a decade ago.

Agreed.

ehBeth wrote:

The U. S. government never had control of the cables. I consider it sheer stupidity that they didn't take security more seriously to begin with. It is not as if it was a surprise to anyone involved with information forensics that this was a possibility.

Agreed, and surprise is not what I'm experiencing.

ehBeth wrote:

The idea that the information was being hidden for a good reason or with good intentions is also baffling.

Is it though?

You or I might find it suspect that the government says information is protected for good intentions. Our suspicions may be confirmed when we learn that some of that protected information is no more than covering their own ass and scandals. However, we also see that once that information was received by wikileaks, a group with their own suspicions, they too concluded that some information needed to be hidden for good reason.

e.g. - Afghan informats, etc

I suspect that if you were in Julian Assange's place when receiving the cables, you would come to the same conclusion. You may be very pleased with the information you got, but you also would respect the inherited responsibility for the additional information that came with it.

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failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:01 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

failures art wrote:
WL upon gaining access to said cables recognized the potential for harm.

too bad the U.S. government hadn't figure that out before the information was put into the cables.

What's your point? That the errors of the USG excuse the errors of WL (and presumably the Guardian) when it comes to the issue of protecting sensitive and potentially harmful information?

No way. Power comes with responsibility. WL inherited power, and they can't ditch the responsibility. It doesn't matter if they shouldn't have had the power, the fact is that they did.

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failures art
 
  2  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:04 am
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:
that they would redact information to protect innocent people.


Then WL should be lauded for their attempts. But US, as always, is using this tired old meme in complete hypocrisy. The US doesn't, has never given a rat's ass about innocents. They have murdered millions of innocents. With absolutely zero sense of shame.


I won't laud them for failing. Whether the US gives a rats ass or not doesn't matter. Supposedly, WLs does give a rats ass, and their mishandling of the information they gained has real consequences for some.

No amount of America-is-evil speak changes that.

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JTT
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:33 am
@failures art,
It has nothing to do with the amount of America is evil speak. It has to do with the fact that a large part of America, the part that really matters, the governments, are evil, that they have consistently and wantonly perpetrated this evil upon country after country after country.

WikiLeaks is attempting to stop that evil by exposing that evil with the EVIL's own words and actions.

How is it, Art, how is it even remotely possible, that you are missing this?

You're not actually, missing it, that is. You're just trying to make excuses, all smoke and mirrors, in order to shift the blame away from the true source of evil, to those who are exposing such evil.

Did you miss Post: # 4,721,770?

Have you somehow overlooked the fact that the US is involved in not one, but two illegal invasions of sovereign nations? That it is involved in all the war crimes that flow from those illegal wars of aggression.

Have you somehow overlooked the fact that this is standard fare for the US, has been for well over a century?

What is wrong with your brain that you can engage in this Goebbels speak with such aplomb?
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:50 am
@JTT,
Just stop it. WLs made a serious mistake here. If you are so afraid of admitting that because it will wrinkle the fabric of the flag you're burning, you're out of touch.

You can both condemn the USG, and acknowledge the failures of WLs along with the potential harm.

An honest person would. A hypocrite would also be the person claiming to care about people in Afghanistan, but only if their aggressor is the USA. Do you only conditionally give "a rat's ass" about them?

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ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:54 am
@failures art,
If the U.S. government (among others) hadn't felt the need to hide things, there would have been no need for a Wikileaks.

Wikileaks mishandling things <shrug> is small potatoes in comparison to what was done when the cables were originally determined to be something that the government thought they would hide.

I've had no ability to identify any upside to hidden government correspondence since Lockerbie.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:55 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

I suspect that if you were in Julian Assange's place when receiving the cables, you would come to the same conclusion. You may be very pleased with the information you got, but you also would respect the inherited responsibility for the additional information that came with it.


you couldn't be more wrong about the conclusion I'd have come to in that situation
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 10:57 am
Here's the Economist doing its part to whitewash US war crimes. Kind of an institutional Failures Art.

Quote:
The truth about No Gun Ri

Feb 17, 2000

Finding out what happened in a corner of South Korea 50 years ago will help America to clear its mind about the rules of future wars

Yeah, right, as if this has ever made the slightest bit of difference.


It is painful for Americans to think of American soldiers committing war crimes,

"painful" ; well, they sure are good at either making lame ass excuses or putting it out of sight, out of mind.

not least because the allegation about No Gun Ri comes at a time when an attempt is being made to set up an international system of war-crimes tribunals that might one day point a finger at the American troops to whom much of the world looks for its security.

Hey, this blue ribbon investigation sure did wonders for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, didn't it?

At first, American army officials had shrugged off the No Gun Ri accusation.

No way, American army officials would never do that!

But, once the AP had published its story, the government moved smartly. William Cohen, the secretary of defence, ordered Louis Caldera, the army secretary, to lead that team of investigators. A patently independent-minded bunch, these include a former Washington Post reporter, Don Oberdorfer, and a Harvard history professor, Ernest May, as well as General Robert Ricassi, a former commander of American forces in Korea.

Read the rest of the apology for US war crimes at,

http://www.economist.com/node/329553



0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:01 am
@msolga,
msolga, It's not surprising for a private to have access to top secret information. When you're in the military service, they assign you to a specialty that can involve confidential information or none. I was a private when they assigned me to work with nukes. The very first warning we received in training was, don't talk about your job outside the secured area (where the bombs were kept). If you are caught, you will be fined $10,000 and ten years in prison.


0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:04 am
@failures art,
Quote:
If you are so afraid of admitting that because it will wrinkle the fabric of the flag you're burning, you're out of touch.


Earth to Space Cadet Art;

You can both condemn the USG, and acknowledge the failures of WLs along with the potential harm.

What would be the benefit of the two of us to running around screaming "the sky is falling, the sky is falling", Art, when we could better spend our time pointing up the thousands of instances where the sky did fall upon millions of, not "potentials", but actual real dead/maimed innocents.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:11 am
@JTT,
You're the one who continues to claim the sky has already fallen on the US. You lack historical perspective as well as reality in today's economic and political world.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:16 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
You're the one who continues to claim the sky has already fallen on the US.


This makes no sense, CI. It sounds like a h20guy response.

Quote:
You lack historical perspective as well as reality in today's economic and political world.


Please point those shortcomings out, if you will.

I'm kinda of the opinion that there aren't excuses to be made for war crimes. Especially phony, self centered ones.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
No, you're not; you are an extremist who continues to belittle whatever the US does.


Actually, I started a thread just so that people could discuss all the good things that the US has done. Surprisingly, CI, or maybe unsurprisingly, there were no takers. Some even asked for a link and still there was nothing.

Quote:
There are limits to the cost to Americans from what our government does; it doesn't excuse them, nor are all Americans at fault. You just don't know the difference.


I could address that if it made any sense.

For the part that did make sense; of course, not all Americans are at fault. Many/most?? Americans are ignorant of just what it is that their governments do, have done.

That's illustrative of just how effective the US propaganda system is, has been. Hell, it even has journalists tricked/cowed/willing to sacrifice their ethics because being a suckup [it does work - it got you a +3, CI] to the US government is much more rewarding than doing their job.
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:28 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

If the U.S. government (among others) hadn't felt the need to hide things, there would have been no need for a Wikileaks.

You're betraying the events that have actually taken place.

Wikileaks receives whatever it receives. Pvt. Manning (presumed) released the cables for his own motives. He certainly didn't release the 250,000 cables because he spent the time reading the 250,000 cables and said to himself, 'man there's 250,000 cables that need to be put out in the open.' Let's say a cable is a single page. How long would you need to read it all? I'll cut you some slack, lets say you took a 10% sample, and read 25,000 of them. How long? If you read 10 cables and found 9 with information you thought needed to be outed but the 10th had information you understood could harm people (non gov) would you include it in what you sent to Mr. Assange?

There are serious questions that don't resolve to simple and easy answers. Loving or hating WLs or the USG is pathetically small minded. Neither deserve such a blind and loyal defense.

ehBeth wrote:

Wikileaks mishandling things <shrug> is small potatoes in comparison to what was done when the cables were originally determined to be something that the government thought they would hide.

Small potatoes--but then again--not your potatoes. I guess we should not care?

This small potatoes logic is flimsy. Where else would you apply it in your own life? BP makes a huge oil spill, so it's only small potatoes if you put your used engine oil down the drain?

Pretending that WL is sooooo important and noble that we can't possibly care about the consequences of their actions is misguided.

ehBeth wrote:

I've had no ability to identify any upside to hidden government correspondence since Lockerbie.

Easily spoken words.

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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:31 am
@JTT,
The US invented American football which must be the most highly paid occupation in the world for the few minutes of action. And journalists get paid a lot for copying out official handouts.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:32 am
@ehBeth,
ehBeth wrote:

failures art wrote:

I suspect that if you were in Julian Assange's place when receiving the cables, you would come to the same conclusion. You may be very pleased with the information you got, but you also would respect the inherited responsibility for the additional information that came with it.


you couldn't be more wrong about the conclusion I'd have come to in that situation


Really? So knowing that AQ might want an informant's name, you'd not protect the name? Remember, we're talking about the practice of redacting right now. You'd release the document with no care to the informant?

Knowing that you could release the document and the substance of it is not enough for you? You'd additionally need their name publicly released? You'd feel no responsibility to redact the name out of concern for their safety?

I don't think you're that careless.

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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Sep, 2011 11:35 am
@JTT,
And, ofcoarse, you have compared what the US has done against all other countries past and current. You ****'n ignoramus!
 

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