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Are you concerned that extreme political rhetoric will lead to violence?

 
 
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 03:59 pm
If so, what do you think about Ted Rall?

http://www.verumserum.com/?p=18820

Rall is another lefty revolutionary dilettante who seeks to capture what he believes is the spirit of a time he didn't live through...and cause enough contraversy to sell a book, but I suspect that many of the folks who wring their hands over the perceived violent intentions of Tea Party members will find his explicit call for violent revolution easily distinquishable as simply an expression of deep frustration over the terrible state of affairs the Right has brought upon America.

Except to the extent that he reveals hypocrisy on the Left, I don't care much about Rall and his ridiculous manifesto. He certainly doesn't scare me, nor do I believe anyone needs be concerned that he might be fomenting revolution or even random acts of violence.

Even if I have totally misread him and tomorrow he engages in an act of violence, he will still be a single nut with an extreme left-wing ideology just as Timothy McVeigh was a single nut with an extreme right-wing ideology. Obviously not harmless, but hardly signs of an impending politically motivated apocolypse.

When a "right-wing" or "left-wing" organization begins to adopt the tactics of al-Qaeda and demonstrates that group's dedication to violence, then I will become worried. Until such a time, it's all sorry fear-mongering regardless of what end of the spectrum its coming from.
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 04:00 pm
By the way, Rall is the cartoonist who brought us these tasteful gems:

http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?llr=mkdlu7cab&et=1103899012169&s=43767&e=001M8hxsp3EKgSNETt4aS665drWxl-iKGZHlRI5IeJUeGuss9WeVhKUAXo2YrYDYxicvBt6QI_qwUF7fYopr7XO4wMx6xrAKFtYfMWEmYrk75iwxEPnDIn5wxvYDHen0E7UtrckHqrBo71y8MqGkBh05LSPJH_Ys5YiSmDUIJm0cs306BbqN5H9kw==

http://cellar.org/2002/tedrall.gif

http://picayune.uclick.com/comics/trall/2007/trall070714.gif
kickycan
 
  4  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 04:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If so, what do you think about Ted Rall?


I'm not that worried about it, not being gay. I don't think that this guy is capable of doing much damage with his hate-filled ideas, being a fairly unknown cartoonist.

If I were gay, I think I'd probably be concerned about violence, especially now that bigoted politicians like Carl Paladino are not immediately shunned when they talk **** about how gay people shouldn't be allowed to have equal rights in our society. I remember seeing an article about a gay guy getting beat up last month. I could see how a gay person might put those two things together and get a little worried.
djjd62
 
  3  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 05:07 pm
Are you concerned that extreme political rhetoric will lead to violence?

i'm more worried it won't, there's so little on TV to watch, some rioting or a nice civil war would give us Canadians a break from Battle of the Blades

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 05:52 pm
@kickycan,
Unfortunately, I think gays have had to be disproportionately concerned about violence for quite some time, and I doubt it's any worse for them today than it was 10 years ago.

I also don't think because a politician comes out against gay marriages or their being employed as elementary school teachers, that someone who would never otherwise try and beat up a gay guy is going to start roaming Central Park with a baseball bat.

One story of a gay getting beat up doesn't mean there is an increase in the potential for violence against gays.

People that beat up gays are criminal miscreants pure and simple and they certainly aren't entitled to an excuse that political rhetoric made them do it.
kickycan
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 06:05 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
But you do understand how a gay person might be concerned, don't you?
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 06:33 pm
I'm concerned that Finn is disappointed that it hasn't.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 06:39 pm
@kickycan,
Absolutely.

I also know why people are concerned about sharks right after a newspaper reports a Bull Shark in Fla tore some kid's leg off.

You go in the water and you're at risk of getting eaten by a shark, but the newspaper report didn't increase the risk.

I don't blame gays for being more concerned for their safety when local politicans come out against gay marriage, but I don't think their actual risk is measurably increased.

So, blaming the politician for an increase in gay anxiety is like blaming the newspaper for a reduction in beach goers.

dyslexia
 
  2  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 06:44 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
right, the media has no effect on public generated reality.
failures art
 
  5  
Reply Wed 10 Nov, 2010 07:19 pm
Am I worried that a unrecognizable cartoonist is going to have such a great influence as to incite violence?

No.

Do these cartoons call for violence?

No.

Finn's panty's twisted?

Very.

A
R
T
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 10:17 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Am I worried that a unrecognizable cartoonist is going to have such a great influence as to incite violence?

No.

Do these cartoons call for violence?

No.

Finn's panty's twisted?

Very.

A
R
T


Quite cute Diest, but you obviously didn't read my post or the link.

He's not calling for violent revolution through his cartoons, he is calling for it in his book The Anti-America Manifesto. I also clearly stated I'm not concerned about rhetoric from either the right or the left.

However if you would prefer to respond to what you would like me to have posted...
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 10:20 am
@dyslexia,
dyslexia wrote:

right, the media has no effect on public generated reality.


Not my point.

By publishing stories about shark attacks the media absolutely has an effect on the public's perceptions and actions, but do you blame them if there is a drop off in beach vacations?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 11:28 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Are you concerned that extreme political rhetoric will lead to violence?
No
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 03:53 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:

Quote:
Are you concerned that extreme political rhetoric will lead to violence?
No


Good - me neither.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 04:51 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Quite cute Diest, but you obviously didn't read my post or the link.

I did. He didn't say kill anyone in the link either. He asked if you were attacked, would you fight back in the same way. His message, while grossly overblown in it's picture of Glenn Beck nazis goose-stepping and sticking bayonets in liberal's throats, is not really important at all.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

He's not calling for violent revolution through his cartoons, he is calling for it in his book The Anti-America Manifesto.

I don't know where you got that from the link. I think he forecasts a violent conservative revolution, not the other way. Also, who cares? This guy is a nobody.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

I also clearly stated I'm not concerned about rhetoric from either the right or the left.

Well, interesting point given that when talking about dangerous rhetoric, we have on the left the fear of potential/theoretical radicals, and on the right we have actual people shooting up holocaust museums and militias planning on killing cops to initiate a coup. I guess the two sides are comparable in your head. Now that's cute.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

However if you would prefer to respond to what you would like me to have posted...

I would have preferred you found something worth getting worked up about and posting it.

A
R
T
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 08:32 pm
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Quite cute Diest, but you obviously didn't read my post or the link.

I did. He didn't say kill anyone in the link either. He asked if you were attacked, would you fight back in the same way. His message, while grossly overblown in it's picture of Glenn Beck nazis goose-stepping and sticking bayonets in liberal's throats, is not really important at all.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

He's not calling for violent revolution through his cartoons, he is calling for it in his book The Anti-America Manifesto.

I don't know where you got that from the link. I think he forecasts a violent conservative revolution, not the other way. Also, who cares? This guy is a nobody.


I read it the same way as you ART. This is one of the comments on the subject on the linked page. I think it illustrates the point.

What these goofy armchair revolutionaries forget tho is most libs are scared of guns… and our side not only loves them and is armed to the teeth… but who do they think has been buying up all that ammo for the last two years…?
Bring it~
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 11 Nov, 2010 09:50 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
When a "right-wing" or "left-wing" organization begins to adopt the tactics of al-Qaeda and demonstrates that group's dedication to violence, then I will become worried. Until such a time, it's all sorry fear-mongering regardless of what end of the spectrum its coming from.


al Qaeda dedication to violence came about as a response to the US government's dedication to violence. The US government has al Qaeda beat by well over a century.

Let's even just take since the turn of the century, the year 2ooo. The USA is responsible for the deaths of probably a million people. al Qaeda, absolutely small potatoes; USA, obviously the evil empire.

Now to answer your question.

Are you concerned that extreme political rhetoric will lead to violence?

Not so so much now that Obama is in, though obviously that has been no cure for the evil the US perpetrated on the peoples of Iraq and Afghanistan.

But yes, everyone should be concerned because the extreme political rhetoric that came after 9/11 led to horrendous violence against two innocent countries. History has shown us that it really doesn't matter whether it's Dems or Repubs, they can incite brainless gorms like you, Finn, into supporting war crimes and mass murder.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 05:24 pm
@failures art,
I agree that Rall's call for violent revolution isn't important, but he is calling for it. Go back to the linked site and look for his radio interview clips.

His idiotic manifesto isn't the issue, its the hypocritical nature of the response to it.

Imagine for a moment the reaction we would be treated to if a right wing political cartoonist had written a book calling for violent revolution.

He is a no-body but Timothy McVeigh was too, and a lot of the rhetoric cited by liberals as promoting violence (see Celie's post for example) comes from no-bodys. I'm not suggesting that Rall is a potential McVeigh, but he's certainly more of a "somebody" than that maniac.

Obviously, you haven't given up on fear mongering about "Right-Wing Nuts." In your comparison between Rall and one-off maniacs, you forgot the one who cut the throat of the Muslim cab driver, and the guy who took hostages at the Learning Channel.



JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Nov, 2010 05:32 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
One has to wonder, Finn, how it would be possible to tastefully present a bunch of war crimes/war criminals/terrorists.

0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Nov, 2010 04:05 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Imagine for a moment the reaction we would be treated to if a right wing political cartoonist had written a book calling for violent revolution.

I imagine that whoever writes Sarah Palin's tweets would post "don't back down, reload."

You don't realize how out of touch you are Finn. The non-existence of response to violent secessionist and armed against-our-government rhetoric has been par for the course.

Get your head straight. We aren't dealing with theoretical right-wing violence; it's factual. Your begging for some sort of equal exchange is pathetic.

A
R
T
 

 
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