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My dad's a goat rider.
He was, at one stage, grand poobah or something.

@dadpad,

My old man's a dustman
He wears a dustman's hat
He wears cor blimey trousers
And he lives in a council flat

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@Ionus,

Quote:

Freemasonry has never excluded anyone because of their skin. This is a myth that is very popular in the USA but if it was practiced in some lodges it was unofficial and a result of a segregated society, not Freemasonry.

This isn't true. Lodges in the southeastern US are still mostly segregated. It wasn't until 2008 that lodges in my state formally recognized the black lodges (Prince Hall Masonry) as being regular. There are currently huge battles being fought over the issue in Georgia and Texas. (And probably elsewhere.)

That being said, the walls are coming down, and I'm glad for it. Segregation goes against everything Masonry is supposed to stand for. I purposefully put off joining the fraternity until I was sure that this was moving forward.

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@LionTamerX,

As I said, it is solely a USA problem and comes from a segregated society, not from Freemasonry. The rest of the world has had multi-ethnicity since the dawn of freemasonry. There have never been formal rules in the general charter excluding a person by colour of skin or religion. However, you do require approval by the Lodge before joining. This has been used to exclude some people for less than desirable reasons. Similarly, blacks formed their Freemason lodges and applied the same standard. To blame world Freemasonry for segregation in the USA is like blaming democracy because blacks didnt have the vote.

It is worth pointing out that Freemasonry became unpopular in the USA because a member was murdered by a Lodge and other members tried to cover it up.

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@Ionus,

No, what you said was this :

Quote:

Freemasonry has never excluded anyone because of their skin. This is a myth that is very popular in the USA but if it was practiced in some lodges it was unofficial and a result of a segregated society, not Freemasonry.

There is nothing in our membership requirements, bylaws, or any other documents specifically barring anyone based on race, but the de facto laws were that if you were a black man who wanted to join a white lodge, you were out of luck. This came from the grand lodge all the way down to local lodges.

As for religion, you just can't be an atheist.

As for the anti- Masonic movement in the U.S. , that started in the 1820's but had mostly fizzled out by the Civil War. Interestingly enough, William Wirt, who was the Anti-Masonic Party presidential nominee in 1832 was a Freemason.

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@LionTamerX,

Quote:

There is nothing in our membership requirements, bylaws, or any other documents specifically barring anyone based on race, but the de facto laws were that if you were a black man who wanted to join a white lodge, you were out of luck.

I am convinced this statement agrees with me. And I do not see how what I said the first time and what I paraphrased the second have any substantial difference. If you have taken it as such it wasnt intended. I think we have agreed in principle anyway.

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@LionTamerX,

It was a trick to get the anti-Masons.

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@IRFRANK,

IRFRANK wrote:

"And everyone would make money..."

Everyone except other races that were excluded.

Fine if you are in the 'in crowd'.

You know... Blacks have their freemasons, and Jews have theirs, and they all speak the language and they all know how to get along... Blacks were not excluded from my union since before I was a member... Long before, my father the bridgeman worked with one, even though no one would admit the man was black, which he clearly was, but rather, called him a black foot indian... They never had anything against the natives...Ironworkers and Native Americans have something in common: They hold courage as the highest virtue... Whether we all so so or not is immaterial... Most of us recognize that everything people do takes courage; and most of all is to live without social forms, to live as an individual, to stand up for ones self, and to live a life without equal, to make friend with all, and make enemies of none, and best of all to have neither friends nor enemies without cause, especially a cause such as belonging to some fraternity...

Good people belong to the masons, and good people do not... I would not hesitate to stand with them if they were in the right, but; as Groucho said about any club that would have me as a member... I make no claim to having done anything alone; but I do not have to belong anywhere to do good, or be good...

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@Ionus,

Ionus wrote:

Quote:
Everyone except other races that were excluded.
Freemasonry has never excluded anyone because of their skin. This is a myth that is very popular in the USA but if it was practiced in some lodges it was unofficial and a result of a segregated society, not Freemasonry.

Agreed, but no one prevented their organization...

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@LionTamerX,

LionTamerX wrote:

No, what you said was this :

Quote:
Freemasonry has never excluded anyone because of their skin. This is a myth that is very popular in the USA but if it was practiced in some lodges it was unofficial and a result of a segregated society, not Freemasonry.

There is nothing in our membership requirements, bylaws, or any other documents specifically barring anyone based on race, but the de facto laws were that if you were a black man who wanted to join a white lodge, you were out of luck. This came from the grand lodge all the way down to local lodges.

As for religion, you just can't be an atheist.

As for the anti- Masonic movement in the U.S. , that started in the 1820's but had mostly fizzled out by the Civil War. Interestingly enough, William Wirt, who was the Anti-Masonic Party presidential nominee in 1832 was a Freemason.

Macarthy's question in the 50s house un- American activities commitee hearings about fellow travellers was a direct reference to masonry, and their influence in the unions... If I ever wanted to know if a man was travelling, I would ask, and they would in their way, ask back... Not everyone who wears a ring is a mason... A mason can reveal himself to a mason without a word... Or keep it a secret... To some, it means everything, and to some it means next to nothing... One thing it does not do is turn an asshole into a human being...Only death will do that...

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Well, my apologies to Fido and Freemasons. I based my assumption on my experience at a lodge here in the Upstate of SC where it was very much segregated, no doubt as you say because of societal influences. I should not have applied that experience to all masons.

Many times I played golf at one of their golf courses with a member and when I tried to bring along a black friend and fellow golfer, he (the member of the club) made it clear that was not possible. It was my last round of golf there.

You are certainly right Fido, there are good and bad in all fraternities.

Frank

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Psalm for the Elks Lodge Last Call by The Weakerthans:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw9GBDEb8w8&feature=related

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@Fido,

Quote:

Macarthy's question in the 50s house un- American activities commitee hearings about fellow travellers was a direct reference to masonry, and their influence in the unions...

McCarthy was referring to Communists by use of the term "fellow travelers", which translates as "sputnik" in Russian.
The Masons have zero ties to the commies.

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@LionTamerX,

LionTamerX wrote:

As for religion, you just can't be an atheist.

Which makes it a religion by default, though they may claim otherwise.

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@Eorl,

Actually, they are fairly broad minded as far as religious beliefs go. You just have to believe in the existence of a power greater than yourself. I'm sure my beliefs would be considered atheist by many religionists, but it works for me.

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I've been a Freemason for 20 years now. My dad is a Freemason, Granddad, etc... Freemason's and the extended branches (Shriners etc...) give over a million dollars a day (on average) to various charities and operate many of the finest children hospitals in the country. For free to the patients.

There is a fine mythos surrounding the Freemason organization, but most of it just bunk. It's mostly a bunch of old guys getting together once a month, having a business meeting about freemason stuff and then drinking a bunch. Lots of fine dinners out and about and good holiday parties. My lodge does a lot of child protection programs (photo, bio, fingerprints etc) given to parents in case they should ever need them. We do a few fund raisers a year and send the money off to the grand lodge. Nothing secret going on, but it is a nice, fraternal order.

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@McGentrix,

The Shriners have a children's hospital on the northwest side of Chicago. I took a doctor's deposition there once. Nice facility, although the old guy wearing the fez and sitting in the lobby was a bit odd. And McG is right: their services are provided for free. I got that in sworn testimony, so it must be true.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

I've been a Freemason for 20 years now. My dad is a Freemason, Granddad, etc... Freemason's and the extended branches (Shriners etc...) give over a million dollars a day (on average) to various charities and operate many of the finest children hospitals in the country. For free to the patients.

There is a fine mythos surrounding the Freemason organization, but most of it just bunk. It's mostly a bunch of old guys getting together once a month, having a business meeting about freemason stuff and then drinking a bunch. Lots of fine dinners out and about and good holiday parties. My lodge does a lot of child protection programs (photo, bio, fingerprints etc) given to parents in case they should ever need them. We do a few fund raisers a year and send the money off to the grand lodge. Nothing secret going on, but it is a nice, fraternal order.

I can see it now; a bunch of old farts, in this order, telling jokes everyone has already heard demeaning to blacks, jews, women and others, and complaining about their bowel movements, and complaining about their sleep, and complaining about government regulations and taxes, and complaining about the democratic party......

1 Reply

As a yardsale junkie, who happens to live in the Bible belt, I have amassed a large amount of anti masonic/templar/illuminati books. Most of them repeat the same mantra, but every so often an author will come up with a neat hook or idea linking many or all "clubs" of this nature into one huge secret body....that is hell bent on world domination.

There is one house in particular that I have picked up about 10 nice sized boxes of such material....the amount of disinformation that is out there against the Masons alone is staggering. This home belongs to a very deeply indoctrinated family of Pentecostal worshipers....I've never asked them about their religion, but it's fairly obvious considering the books that they have sold me....there is one author {Texe Marrs} that I'm sure they have put at least one of his kids thru college.

Nearly all the books are heavily underlined/highlighted...so I know they have been read, and by the dog-eared thumb stained pages they also appear to have been discussed at length.

The family has always been very nice to me, in fact a few weeks ago they gave me a pair of old cowboy boots, they are pretty much beat to hell, but I love the boots just the same.

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@2PacksAday,

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that is hell bent on world domination.

So...I have competition.

Quote:

they gave me a pair of old cowboy boots, they are pretty much beat to hell, but I love the boots just the same.

I trust you removed and buried the cowboy.....

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