Best Conclusions to Book Series

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I just finished the Harry Potter series (for the first time, held out this long). Wow.

I mean, wow.

That was very, very nicely done.

I think I remember reading that Rowling started at the conclusion and then tracked back from that... that would make sense from the seamlessness of it all, the abundant foreshadowings and hints that bear fruit.

I compare it to "A Series of Unfortunate Events," for example, which started strong but then kept getting weirder and weirder and less plausible and more red-herringy until the author basically said "well yeah it makes no sense, that's life though ya know, it's not all nice and neat."

Hmm.

I really had the impression that he wrote a single book full of hints and portents (the first one) and then just winged it (wung it?) from there, until the magic number of 13 was reached and it was time to stop.

Do you think "Deathly Hallows" is one of the best conclusions to a book series? (It doesn't have to be children's books, though that genre seems to have more series in it than others.) What would you nominate as an excellent conclusion?

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@sozobe,

Wow indeed: I had the exact, exact opposite reaction to the end of the Potter series.

I loved the whole set of books and waited with baited breath for each new one to come out. But the last one, jeez - how hackneyed can one get? I didn't like it at all.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Really? Why not?

I've read all seven of 'em, for the first time, in the space of about two weeks (the first one a bit ago and then the last five just this week), so I was really swept along. Interesting to read them all in a chunk like that.

Also I'm reading them as an advance guard for my daughter (she's a book or two behind me, I'll let her read the whole thing), and so I'm thinking of them in terms of the children's books that after all they are.

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@sozobe,

[Englishmajorlecture](And I have to say, "bated." Not "baited." What do people think that means when they say "waiting with baited breath?" That you're so excited your breath gets stinky? What?) [/Englishmajorlecture]

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Really? Why not?

Spoiler alert! Read no further if you don't want to see discussion of the end of the Harry Potter series.

Harry was protected by a Deus Ex Machina, the biggest one I've ever seen. It wasn't through any real actions of his own that Voldemort was defeated; he inherently could not be killed by him. He never would have been able to be killed by him. And the writing was really poorly done. It wasn't satisfying in any way.

Now, the VERY end - the Epilogue - that part was great. And a good setup for perhaps more books in the future. But overall, it was a poorly thought out and hackneyed ending. I would have to go back and re-read it, but I remember several obvious logical problems with the situation that weren't resolved by the end of the book.

Cycloptichorn

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Things should be left unresolved. That is what makes a great movie and story. Gone With The Wind left us wondering about Tara and Scarlett O'Hara. The Gospels left us wondering about the Second Coming. The Old Testament left us wondering about the Jewish Mashiah.

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@Cycloptichorn,

He didn't know that, though. What did you think of "A Spell for Chameleon," where the fact that the hero can't be harmed turns out to be his special power after all? I thought that was clever and satisfying.

At any rate, while we are of course rooting for Harry throughout, we know he's ready to die if he can just get rid of Voldemort. And that's what his own actions definitely led to. If he hadn't gotten all of those horcruxes then the spell wouldn't have extinguished voldemort when it backfired on him.

And he was in danger if voldemort had been the true master of the elder wand, I think. (I'm still working some stuff out -- had to re-read a couple of things. )

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

He didn't know that, though. What did you think of "A Spell for Chameleon," where the fact that the hero can't be harmed turns out to be his special power after all? I thought that was clever and satisfying.

At any rate, while we are of course rooting for Harry throughout, we know he's ready to die if he can just get rid of Voldemort. And that's what his own actions definitely led to. If he hadn't gotten all of those horcruxes then the spell wouldn't have extinguished voldemort when it backfired on him.

And he was in danger if voldemort had been the true master of the elder wand, I think. (I'm still working some stuff out -- had to re-read a couple of things. )

It's not that I don't like Harry and what he did - I do.

But the final battle boiled down to:

- Voldemort and his cronies pretty much ruling the day in the last fight.
- Lots of characters dying because, well it adds pathos I guess.
- Harry attempting to fight Voldemort and completely losing.
- BUT! A Deus Ex Machina steps in and it turns out that Voldy made a mistake, so,
- Harry comes back to life and Voldemort goes Poof and dies.

It just wasn't very satisfying to me.

I loved 'A spell for Chameleon,' though I would point out that that book was the start of a series and not the conclusion of one.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

No, he didn't attempt to fight Voldemort and fail... he realized that they both had to die for Voldemort to die. And so he willingly walked to his death. Stood there and waited to die, and was hit by Voldemort's killing curse, and was right on the verge of death, but chose to go back and fight.

I think it would've been unrealistic if in that huge fight with dead people everywhere, they didn't suffer any particular losses. Fred, Tonks, and Lupin were about right... definitely sad, showing the seriousness of this fight (they're not back in "Defense Against the Dark Arts" practicing stuff), and in the case of Lupin, allows him to be one of the reunited quartet that escorts Harry to his death (or so Harry, and they, think) at Voldemort's hands.

What mistake are you referring to re: Voldemort? (I mean he made some, but I'm not sure which you mean by the deus ex machina one... the Elder Wand bit?)

Right, I wasn't saying "A Spell For Chameleon" was the conclusion of the series (and I think that's a series that started far stronger than it ended), just that a twist or deus ex machina or whatever is not something that I think is automatically bad. I think it worked great in ASFC (even if it turns out that in retrospect all that pulse-churning action had a foreordained conclusion), and it didn't bother me in HP.

I found some old threads about this (like this one) and a comment there made me think of something. By the time the seventh book rolled around there was SO MUCH hype, and expectations were so high, and there was so much public musing about what would happen. I completely sidestepped all of that, wanted to wait to read it until I could with sozlet (what's happening now). So I didn't have any of that raised-expectation stuff re: the last book, it just all came spilling one after another. And I think that maybe some of the book works better in that context.

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@sozobe,

The Deus Ex Machina was the fact that Voldy had 'accidentally' made Harry into one of his Horcruxes - thereby granting the kid the power to be basically immune to voldy's death curses. I found that hard to believe, that such a thing would happen on accident. I know that Rowling had an over-riding theme that Love was stronger than all the other magic that they threw around, but I kept wondering - the other people that Voldy killed, didn't they have people who loved them? Didn't others try to stop him and others using the power of their love in the past? Why did it work this time? It just didn't seem to add up.

Quote:

Right, I wasn't saying "A Spell For Chameleon" was the conclusion of the series (and I think that's a series that started far stronger than it ended), just that a twist or deus ex machina or whatever is not something that I think is automatically bad.

That series has ended? Laughing

it's like the longest fantasy series ever, other than maybe Discworld (which I highly recommend).

I don't like Ex Machinas, because they represent things that are completely external from the control of the characters who I have learned to love. Instead of those characters using their strength and ingenuity to save the day, the WRITER saves the day by inventing a situation which just so happens to do so. There's a reason that these literary constructions are panned a lot of the time...

Anyway, that's just my opinion on the thing, let's hear what someone else has to say; I don't want to make it out as if I'm all right and you are wrong or anything.

As for favorite ends to series, I'd go with:

The Lord of the Rings, or maybe, The Baroque cycle by Neal Stephenson. Both are fantastic endings to great stories.

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

OK... but he was immune once (when the horcrux part was destroyed) -- in the final, climactic battle he's not immune anymore (he's no longer a horcrux).

I don't actually know if Xanth is still going! Laughing

I just stopped reading after like the eighth one.

I thought of "Lord of the Rings,"too.

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@sozobe,

I thought the first half of "Deathly Hallows" was incredibly slow but the second half really moved alone. Plus, I thought Snape was the best character in the whole series and she wrapped him up well.

As to other series, if you read fantasy, the "Sword of Truth" series had some ups and downs, but the last three books were outstanding and the last one was really spectacular.

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@sozobe,

sozobe wrote:

Right, I wasn't saying "A Spell For Chameleon" was the conclusion of the series (and I think that's a series that started far stronger than it ended), just that a twist or deus ex machina or whatever is not something that I think is automatically bad. I think it worked great in ASFC (even if it turns out that in retrospect all that pulse-churning action had a foreordained conclusion), and it didn't bother me in HP.

OK, it's been three decades or so, but the ending in ASFC was not pre-ordained. Bink was neutralized by Trent's equal magic and certainly could have been hurt or killed by him although only by non-magical means. And yes, ASFC was probably the highpoint in that entire series. The more successful Anthony became, the worse his writing got.

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@engineer,

engineer wrote:

sozobe wrote:

Right, I wasn't saying "A Spell For Chameleon" was the conclusion of the series (and I think that's a series that started far stronger than it ended), just that a twist or deus ex machina or whatever is not something that I think is automatically bad. I think it worked great in ASFC (even if it turns out that in retrospect all that pulse-churning action had a foreordained conclusion), and it didn't bother me in HP.

OK, it's been three decades or so, but the ending in ASFC was not pre-ordained. Bink was neutralized by Trent's equal magic and certainly could have been hurt or killed by him although only by non-magical means. And yes, ASFC was probably the highpoint in that entire series. The more successful Anthony became, the worse his writing got.

Which is sad, really.

I did really love his Aspects of Incarnation series (though the last two aren't the best) and Macroscope. Man, that was a great book!

Cycloptichorn

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Ian Rankin, writer of many crime procedurals set in Scotland, recently - well, fairly recently - let his protagonist, Inspector Rebus, go out to pasture. I did read the last book featuring Rebus, and, sad to say, don't remember the ending. Rebus was an interesting character for me but a goodly portion of why I read police procedurals is for their description/sense of place.

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@engineer,

That seems pretty much exactly equivalent to the HP situation though.

Actually I still don't totally get that (there may be more re-reading): giving your life for someone bestows the Fidelus Charm on them? And Harry's mother bestowed that on him by dying for him, and he did that for all the people in Hogwarts, by willingly putting his life on the line for them..?

Meanwhile he was a horcrux, which wasn't protective, but gave him a connection with Voldemort (he held a piece of his soul).

And the spell rebounded on Voldemort at the end because he was not the master of the Elder Wand...? (Yeah, I definitely have to re-read, I've been reading too much Wikipedia-type stuff that has things that are wrong and now my own memory is a bit muddled.)

If nothing else, the fact that it all made sense to me at the moment I closed the book means there was some good writing going on. Smile

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@Cycloptichorn,

Quote:

The Deus Ex Machina was the fact that Voldy had 'accidentally' made Harry into one of his Horcruxes - thereby granting the kid the power to be basically immune to voldy's death curses.

Well, not exactly. Voldemort's turning Harry into a Horcrux did not grant Harry immunity; it granted Voldemort immunity. That's what Horcruxes do: since Voldy has a Horcrux in Harry, Voldy can't die. It was Voldemort's inadvertent turning of himself into Harry's Horcrux that granted Harry immunity.

And while it seems like Voldy's doing so was an accident, it echoed the prophecy we've known about since Book 5: Voldy would mark his enemy as his equal. That's what the accidental Horcruxes accomplished: Harry and Voldy became true equals, or rather opposing sides of the same coin since Voldy's Horcrux came from violence while Harry's Horcrux came from sacrifice. That's why I don't consider it a true deus ex machina. Far from being a freak occurrence compromising the narrative's integrity or logic, it was a playing out of the theme that's been powering all seven books.

Quote:

the other people that Voldy killed, didn't they have people who loved them? Didn't others try to stop him and others using the power of their love in the past?

That's a fairer objection, I think, one that struck me too. But I'm not bothered by it as much because I've read enough cheesy fantasy to have grown accustomed to the notion that only one obscure and untried hero can be destined to wield the Enchanted Sword of the Ancients with which he and only he can be the one to slay the Dread Zaramor, or whatever. It defies logic but it happens all the time in the genre.

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p.s. Which is not to say Book 7 was free of dissatisfyingly improbable turns of events. My reaction was much the same as Sozobe's--for the reasons cited above I thought it provided exactly the kind of closure that was called for--but I was disappointed a bit by some of the smaller creaky joints in the book's narrative: the Deluminator having the additional ability to hear remote conversations and guide you to people you're looking for; Ron's being able to open the Chamber of Secrets by impersonating Parseltongue; the Gringotts dragon; etc.

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Mo and I are reading the "Nathan Abacrombie, Accidental Zombie" series right now.

HILARIOUS!

I don't know how the series will end. I hope it doesn't end for a while.

As far as adult books go I remember "The Deptford Trilogy" by Robertson Davies as being very satisfying. It's been 25 years or so (?) since I've read it though so I can't go into detail. I think I might just have to read it again.

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I see I'm out of my league here, she says, lol'ing.

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