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# It is wrong to say that Pi has no discernible pattern...

Thu 19 Aug, 2010 11:32 am
And to claim that the numeric value at any given position can not be determined.

Now if you're familiar with mathematics you've probably guessed what I'm getting at (because the base was not included in my statement), and so obviously this statement is meant for the general populace who may be curious to learn some more facts about Pi. Possibly this statement will cause someone to look into why it's true.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 6,347 • Replies: 14

Pronounce

0
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 11:38 am
I like this discussion point, because it highlights another issue, and that is one of perspective. Too often people get into arguments over a truth, and each can be right from their perspective. They would know this if only they would suspend their assumptions and take the time to learn about the other person's position and why they believe what they believe.
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djjd62

1
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 12:50 pm
actually the pie in my life follows some pretty discernible patterns, pumpkin pie only in the fall and winter, blueberry pie with vanilla ice cream in spring and summer

3
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 01:22 pm
It does have a pattern, some call it a circle.
Pronounce

1
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 01:45 pm
@djjd62,
Yum! We're getting close to blackberry and marionberry pie season here.
http://www.tillamookcheese.com/OurProducts/IceCream/Marionberry_Pie.aspx
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss?url=search-alias%3Daps&amp;field-keywords=Willamette+Valley+Fruit+Company
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Pronounce

1
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 01:52 pm
What goes around, comes around.
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rosborne979

1
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 02:21 pm
@Pronounce,
Pronounce wrote:
Now if you're familiar with mathematics you've probably guessed what I'm getting at (because the base was not included in my statement),

What base results in a pattern for PI?
engineer

2
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 02:35 pm
@rosborne979,
Base 2 or 16. There is an algorithm that allows you to calculate the nth term for pi in base 2 without previously calculating all the others. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numerical_approximations_of_%CF%80#Bellard.27s_improvement_.28base_2.29 I don't know if that is a pattern in the sense that it is a repeating series, but it a pattern in that you can calculate the nth term without calculating all the terms leading to it.
ughaibu

1
Thu 19 Aug, 2010 05:45 pm
@Pronounce,
Pronounce wrote:
And to claim that the numeric value at any given position can not be determined.
The expansion of pi can be generated from a short algorithm, this disqualifies it as random. The question of whether or not it is Borel normal, is independent.
Pronounce

1
Fri 20 Aug, 2010 05:06 pm
@ughaibu,
Can you share the short algorithm? What does it mean to be defined as Borel normal?
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Pronounce

1
Fri 20 Aug, 2010 05:21 pm
I was told there was no discernible pattern when calculating Pi in base 10. Then I heard you could calculate the value of the nth numeral in base 2 and base 16. This has led me to ponder if we're looking at other things wrong. Do we know why nature contains constants? Maybe our understanding of nature would shift if we could visualize constants in multiple dimensions (the x, y, z planes for sure, but how about others? Add t and v, but how about more?)

I'm wondering if our mathematics are too shallow and narrow. What if there was a mathematics that used a multi-dimensional based system. (It's beyond me to describe such a system. Much less a proof for such a radical mathematical methodology.)

Maybe there is no one smart enough to see past our current theory of mathematics, but the fact that there are constants that "just work" to make the math problems solvable indicates to me that mathematics needs some more improving.

I'm wondering if it isn't necessary for us to see past timespace to grasp the necessary mathematics to understand timespace.
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Reconstructo

1
Sun 22 Aug, 2010 06:47 pm
@engineer,
Yes, this is amazing, that such formulas have been found. We somehow can skip digits. Math Mountain is Tall.
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Sentience

2
Mon 30 Aug, 2010 12:06 am
@Pronounce,
It's impossible to say whether Pi has a discernible pattern or not until we've found all the digits or have found a discernible pattern.

However, it is fully possible to guess the numeric value at any given position. Liu Hiu guessed 3.14 correctly enough, way back when, and it is always possible to go deeper, though not with the human eye.
Pronounce

1
Wed 1 Sep, 2010 03:52 pm
@Sentience,
There are patterns in Pi (many it seems), but the two I was referring to are found in base 2 and 16 as mentioned above. Also see this link: http://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1097196&amp;postcount=15
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shakwerner

1
Sun 3 Feb, 2013 03:54 pm
Maybe I'm a little crazy, but I believe that there has to be a discernible pattern to pi. If you have discovered it, that is amazing, since I know that many people have tried before. Just because nobody has yet determined a pattern doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The whole universe is made of abundant patterns and designs, so why not extend it to pi? Good luck with your quest. You may become famous! Don't forget that the world used to laugh at Christopher Columbus when he believed the world was round.
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