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Socialism

 
 
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 10:22 am
http://www.conflictingviews.com/politics/economics/socialism-profitable-4221.html#post71649

As per the above post, socialism is all about decentralized, local and democratic rule. The gov't would actually be quite small as it would be localized. The central gov't would only be as large as needed to keep all the local gov'ts on the same page (in America this would mean the 3 branches of gov't and not much else).

As for your point on progress, what's the grater motivator, working to get someone else rich or working to get yourself rich and help your community at the same time?

It's all in how it's implemented.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,579 • Replies: 23
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russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:16 pm
@David cv,
"Socialism, ..... not for-profit organizations." ...?
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:32 pm
@russ cv,
russ;71662 wrote:
"Socialism, ..... not for-profit organizations." ...?


Something can make truckloads of money and still not be for-profit, it just needs to pay it's bills and employees and give the rest away. Just look at the Red Cross, they seem to ask for more blood then money. And a business, unlike a charity, would be selling stuff and thus not rely on donations.

The USSR was the 2nd largest economy in the world for a reason after all.
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:36 pm
@David cv,
Are you describing Marx's supposedly inevitable socialism?
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 06:42 pm
@russ cv,
russ;71666 wrote:
Are you describing Marx's supposedly inevitable socialism?


No, I'm not a Marxist. Communism is... Not my thing. :ban:
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 05:19 am
@David cv,
Who's work should I read?
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 11:04 am
@russ cv,
russ;71668 wrote:
Who's work should I read?


Everyones? Regardless of your ideology, you need to read everything to get an idea of what the socialists/communists believe.
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 12:01 pm
@David cv,
Got a more specific suggestion as a starting point, overview?
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 12:49 pm
@russ cv,
russ;71675 wrote:
Got a more specific suggestion as a starting point, overview?


Well the CM is an obvious start but many socialists (non-communist ones like myself) don't really hold to more then a few points. Reading up on the Internationals is also a good idea. Then you can always visit the websites of leftist organizations/political parties to get a more modern view.
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 01:12 pm
@David cv,
"Well the CM is an obvious start"
-- Have read that, not like the system you've described.

"Reading up on the Internationals is also a good idea."
-- Neither google nor I are familiar with the Internationals.

"Then you can always visit the websites of leftist organizations/political parties to get a more modern view. "
-- Eh? Even less like the system you described than the CM.
0 Replies
 
Anton Artaud
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 11:35 pm
@David cv,
David;71655 wrote:
http://www.conflictingviews.com/politics/economics/socialism-profitable-4221.html#post71649

As per the above post, socialism is all about decentralized, local and democratic rule. The gov't would actually be quite small as it would be localized. The central gov't would only be as large as needed to keep all the local gov'ts on the same page (in America this would mean the 3 branches of gov't and not much else).

As for your point on progress, what's the grater motivator, working to get someone else rich or working to get yourself rich and help your community at the same time?

It's all in how it's implemented.


Socialism alone demands huge centralized administrative abilities to gather the taxes and re-distribute. This is why our government has demanded more money and expanded to the point of creating incompetent pockets of waste.

We have world history to show how socialism breaks down democracy and leaves the poor worse off. Look at just the size of DMV and all the errors they make.

In socialism, the rich are no longer those who earned their wealth but those who are either part of the criminal element as in South America or head of state as evidenced by the bleak history of Communism.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 12:50 am
@Anton Artaud,
Anton Artaud;71683 wrote:
Socialism alone demands huge centralized administrative abilities to gather the taxes and re-distribute. This is why our government has demanded more money and expanded to the point of creating incompetent pockets of waste.

We have world history to show how socialism breaks down democracy and leaves the poor worse off. Look at just the size of DMV and all the errors they make.

In socialism, the rich are no longer those who earned their wealth but those who are either part of the criminal element as in South America or head of state as evidenced by the bleak history of Communism.


Socialism =/= communism
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 07:17 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
I stand to be corrected, but the impression I get is that what's being described here as socialism might more accurately be Libertarian Socialism or Social Anarchism....?
0 Replies
 
Anton Artaud
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 08:36 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71685 wrote:
Socialism =/= communism


I never said socialism and communism are the same. I said the money moves to those in political control as in Communism. However, Communism is also the next step from Socialism. I was addressing political functions and the flow of money.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 11:25 am
@Anton Artaud,
Anton Artaud;71692 wrote:
I never said socialism and communism are the same. I said the money moves to those in political control as in Communism. However, Communism is also the next step from Socialism. I was addressing political functions and the flow of money.


Then how would anything exemplary of socialism be evidence by the bleak history of communism? You may have not said they were the same thing but you implied it with such a statement.
Anton Artaud
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 May, 2010 06:13 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71697 wrote:
Then how would anything exemplary of socialism be evidence by the bleak history of communism? You may have not said they were the same thing but you implied it with such a statement.


Echo-location is found in bats, dolphins and there are cases of blind people able to mimic these animal functions. While they are all very different from one another they do share this unique quality.

Communism contains the values of Socialism and goes further to restrict ownership. Socialism however, does not contain the values of Communism but is its subset.

Two entities do not have to be the "same" in order to share a quality. And while communism fails, today there are social countries still viable.

The topic was socialism communism and wealth distribution. That is what they have in common.
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 01:03 am
@Anton Artaud,
Anton Artaud;71699 wrote:
Echo-location is found in bats, dolphins and there are cases of blind people able to mimic these animal functions. While they are all very different from one another they do share this unique quality.

Communism contains the values of Socialism and goes further to restrict ownership. Socialism however, does not contain the values of Communism but is its subset.

Two entities do not have to be the "same" in order to share a quality. And while communism fails, today there are social countries still viable.

The topic was socialism communism and wealth distribution. That is what they have in common.


You're confusing the welfare state (a Prussian invention to keep the masses that would fuel socialism happy and the capitalists in charge) with socialism (worker rule).

As for communism... Well I'm no communist. Really don't get them. :dunno:
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 04:42 am
@David cv,
Libertarian Socialism or Social Anarchism....
David cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 08:34 am
@russ cv,
russ;71704 wrote:
Libertarian Socialism or Social Anarchism....


A bit of LS but I'm not really, just agree with them a bit. I'm certainly not an anarchist.
0 Replies
 
Anton Artaud
 
  1  
Reply Sat 8 May, 2010 09:50 am
@David cv,
David;71703 wrote:
You're confusing the welfare state (a Prussian invention to keep the masses that would fuel socialism happy and the capitalists in charge) with socialism (worker rule).

As for communism... Well I'm no communist. Really don't get them. :dunno:


The truth is, no system is pure. Trying to offer a strict definition is futile because there will always be exceptions.

Regardless of it being communism or socialism or communism or a welfare state the process is the same: money is collected from the gross product of produced by the workers, funneled into a centralized location and redistributed.

Communism is not a dirty word just a failed system.
0 Replies
 
 

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