Rogue Science - Free Speech or Terror Threat?

OK, I didn't realise you were only considering mass extinction, I thought you were talking about catastrophe in a more general sense.
I don't know how to answer your question really. Personally, I can't see any benefit in making the knowledge available. It's no longer in the realms of the hobbyist, it wouldn't be any fun to implement it and so I would agree that I wouldn't want it available. It would bring no good and would be potentially dangerous.
Although if it were made available, then at least people would know that something had to be done in order to prevent it from happening.
Lol, the situation reminds me of the first atom bomb test, when some were seriously concerned that it could start nitrogen fusion and melt the earth. Calculations showed that it couldn't happen, but some were worried that there could be unforseen circumstances. So they did it anyway!

Hmmm... unless I've made a stupid error somewhere, then a gram of antimatter anihilating with a gram of matter is only equal to a 36kT explosion anyway. Slightly less actually, because TNT doesn't quite get the 5kJ/gram that I assumed. I know we're not only concerned with antimatter, but I thought it was an interesting result. I'd always assumed it'd be more powerful.... it puts the amount of antimatter required to cause significant climate change up to ~10kg. Good luck making a trap for that!
Current world production of antimatter is in the nanogram range, I believe...
And even if it were possible to create such an effect, from antimatter or otherwise, I can not see it being done. There's just no way that it could be done covertly.

But although it is an interesting moral problem about the freedom of information, I think it's going off an a slight tangent from the original discussion! There's no comparison between a group of people making some interesting compounds in their garage and world-wide destruction, without a fairly major leap of imagination.

I think neil hit the nail on the head when he mentioned artificial gene modification, that's the biggest threat that I see. Not from GM crops etc, but from the "superplagues" developed by, in particular, the Russians, whose security may not be the best in the world...
And accidental gene modification. MRSA etc...

Yes, for exactly as long as it took one person anywhere on Earth to do it once, and then we'd all be dead, according to the premise of the question.


I just did the calculation, and I get the result that a gram of antimatter when annihilating a similar amount of matter would be equivalent to 2 x 21.5 KTons of TNT = 43 KTons.

Ah, I used metric (tonnes). I can never remember the conversion factor though . In fact, I don't know if explosive yield is measured in tons or tonnes, either...
But either way, it still sucks .

kT per gram mass
.9072 Metric ton per short ton (the 2000 lb ton).

8.9874 E13 joules per gram (E=mc2)
Thats easy, but finding the right heat of explosion for TNT is harder.
Calculated values are 5.90 KJ /g and 5.40 KJ depending on whether or not you let the created water condense.
Experimental values are 4.56 and 4.27 respectively.
I chose 4.27 KJ/g TNT and got 21000 metric tons TNT per gram mass,
or 23200 short tons TNT. 2 grams would yield 46400 short tons TNT.

The CRC 83rd Ed. gives 4.184 E09 as the TNT equivalency of one gram mass.

The US 20 megaton bomb would release 862g of energy.
The Russian 50 megaton test released 2.15 Kg energy. It lifted the atmosphere.

The trend of technology does seem to be heading in the direction of giving ever more power to the little guy. I don't think laws or repression can do any more than slow this process. Probably, as already suggested, biotech would be the next font of some terrible new power an individual could use on the rest of us. Maybe also, social technology will give a new power of the few over the many. Somone could invent a potent new religion and command the humabots. A guy could invent a super ecstasy drug that addles even the power structure of the world and makes us too happy to have children. American consumerism, maybe?

Bad organized terrorists already know everything of use to them in Rogue Sci. They probably have some tricks even Megalomania doesn't know. The little individual terrorists will get themselves caught quickly trying to implement their plots in a big-boy's game, and I think that it is better to let info be free because of that. Would you rather have a closed society in which an info-frustrated would-be terrorist is powerless--until he makes contact with al-qaeda?
Infomation control is like gun control. Only the Police state and the organised criminals have power. And Osama has the few million bucks postulated here as needed for a doomsday machine.

Nickjf has opened a good subject.

correction of CRC Value
Sorry, I meant to say the CRC value given for the no. of joules per short ton of TNT was 4.184 E09. This gives 21480 short tons TNT per gram mass.

"Protecting" the world by shutting down a website is like trying to turn back the tide with a spoon.

They gave details on how to purify Uranium on NPR the other day.

iDefense sounds like one of those Fundamentalist groups that try to attack everything by hanging on to politicians. And in a bad way too--they're like those annoying business advertisements. And since Rogue Science is geared towards hobbyists, it's not like every audience that sees it is going to understand it. Those iDefense attacks are just like people misunderstanding the purpose of science and attacking it for the wrong reasons. And yet, science still thrives today.

rogue science and freedom of speech
First let me introduce myself: I am a dangerous goods advisor for the Fire Dept. of Amsterdam. Class 1 goods certainly are not my speciality (class 7, radioactive material, is). Being confronted with questions of the police on chemicals found in homes and their possible use for explosives, I was very happy to find the explosives site of rogue science, http://www.roguesci.org/megalomania/explosives.html, 2 days ago. This site enabled me to answer the questions fast. And this site seemed to be all I needed to make an extensive list of chemicals suspect to be used in explosives production, to be able to react faster next time. However, my joy was short lived. I started my list on 2. august 2005, and to my disbelief the site was removed the 3rd of august! Of course I can find my info elsewhere, by looking all over the internet, as quoted by others, but this is very inefficient and will cost me lots of precious time - time I would have liked to use to inform our officers and engine chiefs. I tried to find out on the internet if someone had noticed this site being blocked. More important, I wanted to contact the rogue science webmaster. To my surprise, I found a discussion on this same "blocking" subject that started in 2003. Obviously rogue science has been back for a while but has now gone again. This morning I found another good site with combined info on explosives - to find that this evening it has got inaccessible too. I feel angry. Potential terorists can get their training on making bombs in training camps from teachers with lots of practical experience. They do not need such sites. Many emergency services - like my fire dept - need to get their necessary knowledge from the internet, for lack of money, time and teachers with practical knowledge. I hope that the guys who blocked these sites realise they hinder emergency service personnel trying to improve their knowledge to be able to react better on threats!

Anyone with knowledge of chemisty can make explosives. Those with none, will blow themselves up trying. So I just don't see the threat. Call it a darwinistic boost.
These recipes are flawed, and don't take into account safety precedures. So the idiot who wishes to kill you, blows his ass up. Good riddence.
Its a good thing these people don't even realise that homemade explosives should never be stored. Or that one must remove the exess nitric acid with baking soda, using an eye dropper. Not by just dumping the whole solution in. One word Bang.
So no worries mate, this is just evolution playing itself out.
Unless these idiots live below you.... You should be able to smell it Run!!!

Oh and CV its called magnesiem and thermite. That should produce more than enough heat to start, well anything. It hotter than a blow torch, and can be safely mixed into the shell of the explosive. Plus its easily obtainable. You mix rust with Aluminum shreddings. Anyone with acces to a scrap yard can access these materieal, along with carbon blow torch heads. So the right temperture isn't a problem.
Oh and nick, they currently only produce antimatter helium in france. Not even enough to test. But soon my child.
Kinda makes you want to be nice to the french.
We surrender.

ROFLMAOPMP!!!
The whole subject of terrorism threat from websites like roguescience is just hilarious!

Nowhere on the rogue science forum were detailed schemes of how to fly and hijack a commercial airliner. Hell, in fact you could say that Microsoft Flight Simulator is the guilty one, and computer games should be banned since this was used to plan their attack!

Everybody nowadays is talking about the threat of bomb making looneys reading those stupid forums like totse.com, but nobody is talking about the 380 tons of high explosive material and weapons that went missing in the desert during America's little wargame abroad. Where do you think this eventually goes hmmm...

Bombings are as old as the world. They have nothing to do with websites or computergames, but everything with hate, religion, political ideals and a strong determination of those that plan them...

I am also the member of the Rogue science forum. Altough I am sad and angry because of site ban, I am also proud. The site is influential enough to frighten the US Minister of defence!

This is a very good point tijgernest makes; the other day I saw an anti-terrorism poster (in the UK too!). This poster showed a wheelie bin stuffed with suspicious looking empty chemical containers in and was aimed at making the public aware of things like this, in case someone might be building a bomb or something. The problem I saw with it was that not everyone knows what chemical are considered suspicious. From this poster I knew what could be made, but then again, I am a chemistry student at Manchester... The point is, people who are concerned about these matters and wish to educate themselves about "what to look out for" so to speak, are having a hard time finding the information they need. It's true this information can be found in text books but at £80 a pop, the public often turns to the Internet where sites like Rouge Science can help. It is also true that some people may wish to use this information to hurt people, but shutting down the website will not stop them, like I said before, it's all in text books. Just the other day I was reading about the synthesis of cocaine in one of the organic text books recommended by the uni!... So, if someone really wanted to make a bomb to hurt people, shutting down the site will not stop them; a couple hundred pounds spent on books is nothing to them...

It started with the prohibition against pedophilia, then pro terrorist speech, now hate speech what ever the **** that is (it is in the eye of the beholder, so one never knows).. What will be next? Something will, once we begin to regulate speech their is always a next on the list.

Surly when one site like this gets shut down more pop up... I'm considering building one myself... I was a big fan of the Rouge Science site. Does anyone know if anyone has gone ahead and made a new similar site?... I know it might end up being shut down too, but the Internet moves so fast a web site can be moved around the net keeping members informed of moves by email... It's possible but a lot of fuss to be able to exercise ones right to freedom of speech...