Suffering in the world

The usual stance is that everything bad in the world is mans own doing and everything good in the world has Gods 'hand' in it.

I thought it's opposite, most of the time people don't remember about God and enjoy their life until something bad happens and then they blame on him. (at least that's how I was, and a lot of times still is)

I agree.

Well in my limited experience of all things religous (except Weddings Christenings and funerals) I generaly see the opposite But hey, when Sh*t hits the fan you wont see me blaming God. How can you blame something you don't believe is there,...lol.

Because someone needs to be blamed, bad things don't happen to good people, youkno

Oh yeah i forgot :eek:

Suffering happens because people are mortal humans and are promised nothing extra in way of physical reality. God is interested only in the feeding and nurturing that which was made in the image of God, mans spirit or that agent that quickens and animates the body human and makes the soul of man distinct from all lower life forms.

Man had both immortality and the freedom of choice by the very fact that God decided to create man in His image. "And God said, let us make man in our likeness:......" -- Genesis 1:26. And the only image this could possibly be would be a spiritual image, as God is defined as a spiritual being, with no physical being actually having ever seen Him, "God is a spirit and those that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and truth." -- John 4:24. "No man has seen God at any time; the only begotten Son which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared Him." -- John 1:18.

Man had immortality when God created him as he was permitted to eat of the "tree of life", with the only ban or mandate being not to eat from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil, "And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." -- Genesis 2:16-17. When man did exercise his choice of freewill and did eat thereof, man surely began to die, as he was forbidden any longer to eat from the tree of life, "And the Lord God said, behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever. Therefore the Lord God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken." -- Genesis 3:22-23.

It then becomes clear that man indeed is made in the image of God and thus chose to use this free will of decision making to choose wrongly in the direction that controlled his destiny. For as long as man did not know what sin was, or "good and evil", man was sinless, as when there is no knowledge of sin there is no sin, just like in the animal kingdom it is not a sin for a snake to act like a snake or a meat eating animal to act like the predator that they are. "For apart from the law sin was dead" -- Romans 7:8. "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." -- 1 John 3:4.

God created the Law only after the fact of man choosing to take evil over good, in the attempt to point out the fact that man was hopelessly lost in sin, for all the law did was point out the fact of man's sin and the fact that sin is indeed a choice. In the beginning God was repentant that he had made man in the first instance upon earth as man had chosen to willfully disobey God and chose evil over good, as the majority of men were in a state of constant sin. -- Genesis 6:5-6. God gave man every opportunity to repent from the choices that they had made and found only 8 righteous people upon the earth, that of Noah and his family. Its not like man did not have the chance to accept the righteous judgment of God, as it took Noah 120 years to do the things that God had instructed him to do before the earth was overwhelmed by water so that God could turn from the fact of the original creation of man who had used their image of God to do evil instead of good. This is still why there is suffering in the would, as man constantly proves that he is not capable of constantly having the ability to chose righteously and all men eventually sin.

God does not control the life of every human upon earth, for man is an agent of freewill and even God does not have the power of prognostication to see into a future that is in a constant state of flux due to fact of man's free will choices and the fact of nature running its course.

God explains in detail just how he predetermines future events. He plans what he wants to happen at some point in the future, he declares such, and when at a time of His choosing, he manipulates both men and nature to bring about the things that he has formerly declared would happen. -- Isaiah 46:9-11.

Thus, suffering exists because that is the exact nature of things, as God creates and then allows natural events to take place. Man is a natural being, he is destined to die, and the fact of how he choices to direct his life has much bearing upon his walk of life and just how long that life might be. For indeed one cannot, overeat, drink, smoke, and be constantly exposed to caustic agents that are a detriment to his life and then act surprised when what he has sown bears the fruit that is planted. The same for natural disasters and specific natural happenstances. Man often chooses to place himself in harms way, nature is not evil, nature is only naturally acting as nature does. If a man steps on a snake and that snake bites him and causes great suffering one can not blame the snake for being a snake.

As stated in the opening paragraph God is interested in feeding the image of himself which rests in man....the spiritual side of man which is eternal. Jesus after feeding the 5000 in a miraculous fashion dismissed the peoples that followed after him, "Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled. LABOR NOT FOR THE MEAT WHICH PERISHETH, BUT FOR THAT MEAT WHICH ENDURETH UNTO EVEVRLASTING LIFE, WHICH THE SON OF MAN SHALL GIVE UNTO: FOR HIM HATH GOD THE FATHER SEALED." -- John 6:26-27.

Thus, the race is run for the reward at the end of this physical life not for the fulfilling of this physical reality for God has no respect of person and would hope that all come to the knowledge of the truth -- 11Peter3:9

But in the end it is our choice, and it has been from the time, "....Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil...." -- Genesis 3:22 As it seems that man continually chooses evil over good, but God is patient and longsuffering, but the end has been planned and only God the Father knows just when his plan is to be implemented -- Matthew 24:36.

Well if you want to be fair then you should praise god for your promotion or that $50 dollar bill you found on the ground as well as blame god for hurricanes, droughts and any assortment of disease epidemics.

i hope this is sarcasm.

Yes it is, bad things happen to all.

Sorry i had to make sure, as there are actually are people who believe such things.

I agree with your post, but how would you respond to the critic who can't reconcile God and suffering to co-exist.

That's the logic they follow:
1. If God all good and all loving God exist, suffering does not exist.
2. Suffering exists.
3. Therefore, God does not exist.

It is known as Epicurus' riddle.

I found the answer to the paradox, it was proposed by Plantinga in 1974:
1) God is omnipotent, omniscient and perfectly good
2) Evil exists
3) Evil exists because of the actions of free, rational and fallible human being.

1) god allows bad things to happen to good people when he has the power to stop it.

2) God has foresight so he knows everything will happen, he creates people knowing ahead of time that they will do bad things and then punishes them for doing what he programmed them to do.

The suffering is part of life of everyone, good and bad. Christians experience suffering as well, those are the reasons listed in the Bible.

It is to make us like Christ (Heb 12:9)
To drive us closer to God (1 Pet 4:14)
To produce the fruit of patience (James 1:3-4)
To teach us (Psalm 119:67)
To purify our lives (1 Peter 1:7)
To Glorify God (Phil 1:19-20)
To prepare us for the kingdom (2 Tim 2:12)

and how does this apply to genocide? You'll have to excuse me for not knowing how being a victim of genocide makes one closer to god or teaches the victim (since they are already dead). There is not much capacity to change once you are already dead.






So why did god even put the tree there in the first place? Especially when he already knew that if he did, Adam and eve would eat from it. God created Adam and Eve to be gullible and he knew they would be tricked and yet he punishes them for doing what was programed to do and what he knew they would do. Why did god even create the fruit to begin with, why didn't he put the fruit where adam and eve couldn't get it because of this it was god that allowed this all to happen and subsequently allow for sin and eternal hellfire to exist.

Do you not think your beliefs contradict each other?

You see the Bible applies listed benefits to Christians only. If person doesn't know God through Christ Jesus, suffering is all bad.

completely answered

Does that mean no christian has ever died in a holocaust? And why would god allow non-christians to die horrible deaths before they can learn about jesus? What about native tribesmen who are in complete isolation from the rest of the world, does god allow them to suffer for something that is not their fault?




So do you think all suffering is justified on some level?