Is religion healthy for society?

@marcus cv,

marcus;60688 wrote:

I'm very glad that you are pointing to the Bible, that's exactly the point I was trying to make. The Bible is the standard of the Christianity, and the Bible has the authority.

The difference between Crusaders and myself, their time and our time is that that we have the Bible they don't. They were told what to do. The authority was in the hands of man, who were to be faithful. And if they are not, than it has an impact on everyone. Not so in our days.

I accept the fact that the crusaders were told to do what they did because of the church authority (which is why i am more critical of Catholicism than Christianity as a whole). But to be honest there are parts in the bible that demand death as well as peace, and it also kinda depends on how you interpret the whole thing. Radicals emphasize the death part while moderates emphasize the peace part. Each side has their interpretations so i'm not gonna get into an argument of who is correct, because that would be an ultimately meaningless conversation.

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When it comes to "statistics" I think it would be hard to argue that there are more Christians who caused some one to die than Christians who died because of their faith. Even if we consider that all Christians are Christians. Which I have hard time to accept it.

That's because you've been conditioned to think that some christians are "holier" or overall better Christians than others, and so you minimalize their position and importance. Even though this contradicts the non-judgmental part of christianity, and from a practical stance it is understandable why people do this. It's simple, marginalize those who don't represent your view of Christianity to make the faith more "pure".

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@marcus cv,

marcus;60679 wrote:

On Historical note, Maya collapsed in 9-10th century, they never even heard of Christianity.

The Mayan civilization collapsed when the Spanish conquered them... along with the Aztecs and Inca.

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I see Christians as those who were dying for the cross and not killing others. We all like to take about crusades and scholars estimate that the Crusades of the middle ages cost from 133,000 lives to 1,5 million depending on a historian you will talk to. In 1990 alone over 260,000 Christians were murdered for their faith.
Is religion healthy for society?, You can compare with a non-religious system of communism that killed at least 150,000,000 people in less than 100 years period.

Communism is a form of government that forces the destruction of religion (it is considered a class system). To equate this to a non-religious way of life is rather laughable.

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During exploration time everyone was "Christian". We need to remember that as we live in America today, people in those days lived in Christendom. It's only after Renaissance skeptics and atheists become a sizable group.

We've been exploring way before the New World. We've been exploring long before Christianity. The Renaissance also began in the 1300's, 100 years before the discovery of the New World.

Basically, while the Spanish were conquering the Middle American civilizations, the Renaissance was in full swing. Hence the desire to explore.

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If you were alive, you were "Christian", for many it was a title. Those men who explored New Land for their own greed, didn't say to their family and friends, "I'm going to go rub and kill people and after I come back I will be rich." No, they were "fighting for the faith", and they made themselves believe in it. But the they didn't know and did not wanted to know what the faith is.

If you were alive, you were a Christian or a heretic. Ask Galileo and Joan of Arc about that.

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What is the Christian faith?

2 John 1:4 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

Walk in love, that is the Christianity faith.

I have no problem with the Christian faith, honestly. It's many of the followers that are the issue.

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@Sabz5150,

No its a load of crap :ban:

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@scooby-doo cv,

scooby-doo;60826 wrote:

No its a load of crap :ban:

When the Christian faith is used as a spiritual guide on how to live one's life in a way that teaches respect and tolerance (yes, there are Christians that walk this line) in the hopes that their good deeds and proper treatment of others will bring rewards after the end of one's life, I can respect that fully. That is what Christianity is all about.

However when it is used as a tool for control, indoctrination and suppression of differing views, then the problems arise. This is usually brought about through fear... not doing God's work will result in an eternity of torture and damnation, and nobody wants that. Fear, as we have all witnessed over the past decade, is a very powerful and effective tool by itself. Mixing one's faith with this fear produces a level of control unsurpassed by nearly everything else. In retrospect, the promise of reward mixed with faith can produce a similar effect. We see this in the radicals that crater themselves with high explosives, believing that a harem awaits them on the other side of that brilliant white flash.

In respect to my debate with Marcus, I will agree that the conquistadors that eradicated several civilizations were not "true Christians" because they followed a corrupt church. Again, reward/fear + faith = control = power. That is a blatant twisting of the true meaning of the belief. However they followed the word of God, making them followers of the Christian faith. In the end I guess you can say that Christians were responsible for the destruction of the Maya/Aztec/Inca, but Christianity as it was meant to be is not. That blame rests on the shoulders of the corrupt cloth, something that plagued the Church for centuries. Sadly, it is something that is unbelievably easy to corrupt.

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@Sabz5150,

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The Mayan civilization collapsed when the Spanish conquered them... along with the Aztecs and Inca.

You are correct, my apology. Not to be annoying, but FIY the collapse of Mayan Civilization happened earlier. Wikipedia says from 800 A.D. to 900 A.D., are frequently referred to as the Terminal Classic. In addition to wiki this siteadds more to the picture.
Of course it doesn't take away responsibility of colonizers evil actions.

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Communism is a form of government that forces the destruction of religion (it is considered a class system). To equate this to a non-religious way of life is rather laughable.

I thought it would be appropriate to compare religious and non religious society responding to the question "Is religion healthy for society?"

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I have no problem with the Christian faith, honestly. It's many of the followers that are the issue.

Totally in agreement with you.

1 Reply

@marcus cv,

marcus;60902 wrote:

I thought it would be appropriate to compare religious and non religious society responding to the question "Is religion healthy for society?"

Communism aimed to eliminate the class system. In its sights, among other things, was religion because it in itself created such a class system (some going to heaven, others going to hell, we're saved and you're not, etc. so on and so forth). Communism did not have a direct goal of destroying religion because it wanted to be non-religious... it had the goal of trying to equalize everyone. This failed horribly, mainly due to the fact that the government became the very class system it intended to eliminate.

The famous line "I have seen the enemy, and they are us" fits well here.

No civilization has attempted to destroy religion with the single goal of being non-religious. Nazi Germany (I just Godwinned myself!) attacked the Church because ol Hittie was afraid of the power that it wielded. He didn't do it because he didn't want religion.

Now, whether a society is better off with or without religion is still a toss up because there is no single civilization that is inherently non-religious. Every one of them has their spiritual beliefs embedded into society.

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Is religion healthy for society?

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