0
   

Jesus is a metaphor for the sun!

 
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:41 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;47140 wrote:
Adam, feel free to lay out the rules and I will try to follow your lead.


You are extremely gracious.

Will do. If nothing else, this should stop the invective and impatience from my side. So for me, it is a step in self improvement and possible make a new friend.

Let me get back.

Adam
0 Replies
 
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 09:33 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Are you guys serious about these videos? Ill argue against them but first I want to make sure that this isnt some kind of joke. I mean, maybe you guys should watch them again, maybe this time you will see the stupidity that I saw. I can honestly say that, while I have seen many pathetic attempts to disprove the story of Jesus, this has to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen. Seriously, let me know if this was meant as a joke, 'cause I would feel dumb if I argued something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously...its so hard to type...i cant stop laughing!
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 09:45 am
@adam24,
adam24;47400 wrote:
Are you guys serious about these videos? Ill argue against them but first I want to make sure that this isnt some kind of joke. I mean, maybe you guys should watch them again, maybe this time you will see the stupidity that I saw. I can honestly say that, while I have seen many pathetic attempts to disprove the story of Jesus, this has to be one of the dumbest I have ever seen. Seriously, let me know if this was meant as a joke, 'cause I would feel dumb if I argued something that wasn't meant to be taken seriously...its so hard to type...i cant stop laughing!


Argue your point then laughing boy.
0 Replies
 
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 10:04 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
No prblemo. K, if any of you had actually bothered to read up on Horus, you would have found that there are two stories regarding his birth, and niether has any mention of a virgin. In fact, one even specifically says that Isis (Horus' mother) is not a virgin. She supposedly brought Osiris back from the dead to give her a son...hmmm...why would she need Osiris if she were already pregnant as a virgin? As far as Horus' "12 desciples" these were not actual men or gods but were the 12 signs of the zodiac. Jesus' desiples were actual men whos lives are documented by historians. This is just a small insignificant coincidence. December 25 as both Jesus' and Horus' birthday? December 25 is not the birthday of either Jesus or Horus. Horus' birth was celebrated in the month of Khoiak (october/november) While Jesus is thought to have been born in May. As for the mountain top encounter, two completely different stories, no similarities at all except that both were on a mountain. Last but not least, Horus was never said to have been crucified, nor was he said to have ressurected himself, he was said to have died, then to have merged with Osiris, thats it, no crucifixion, no ressurection. Maybe do some research next time, and dont believe everything you see on you-tube.
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 10:56 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Nothing to say about that? Suddenly we are all quiet...
0 Replies
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 11:05 am
@adam24,
adam24;47420 wrote:
No prblemo. K, if any of you had actually bothered to read up on Horus, you would have found that there are two stories regarding his birth, and niether has any mention of a virgin. In fact, one even specifically says that Isis (Horus' mother) is not a virgin. She supposedly brought Osiris back from the dead to give her a son...hmmm...why would she need Osiris if she were already pregnant as a virgin? As far as Horus' "12 desciples" these were not actual men or gods but were the 12 signs of the zodiac. Jesus' desiples were actual men whos lives are documented by historians. This is just a small insignificant coincidence. December 25 as both Jesus' and Horus' birthday? December 25 is not the birthday of either Jesus or Horus. Horus' birth was celebrated in the month of Khoiak (october/november) While Jesus is thought to have been born in May. As for the mountain top encounter, two completely different stories, no similarities at all except that both were on a mountain. Last but not least, Horus was never said to have been crucified, nor was he said to have ressurected himself, he was said to have died, then to have merged with Osiris, thats it, no crucifixion, no ressurection. Maybe do some research next time, and dont believe everything you see on you-tube.


I think you failed to see the point the three documentaies were trying to establish. The context was that the story comes from astrology and the story is there to fit an astrological event. Forget about jesus for a moment.

One of the documentries shows the yearly astrological event around the time of the time of the 25th Dec and a cycle which occurs over that 3 day period, placement of certain stars in the vicinity of the low sun. Now many tribes, cultures and civilisations have 'similar' not exact stories of this event, the death of the sun (chosen diety, messiah etc) and that it stays in the same place for 3 days then begins to rise again on the third day ( a ressurection of said deity, messiah etc). The shining star to the left and the tree stars to the right, born under a star, sought out by three kings (kings being the three stars).

Ancient tribes depended on their knowledge of the earth and it's cycle through the seaons far more than we could possibly hope to know, their lives depended on it. Story telling was the best way for the knowledge to be passed on as the written word was not really of any relevence until the Egyptions even then it was hyroglyphics (spell). Normal tribesmen would not have needed to write, so stories of mythical beings and creatures were used to depict and make sense of these changes and understand how they effected their every day lives

Now you see why it is very easy to see the story of jesus to be seen as a metaphor for a sun God.

Don't be so quick to judge just because you have a very narrow minded view of the past achievements of our ancestors.
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 04:20 pm
@Numpty,
No I do not see how you can compare Jesus and the sun god, I understand why stories were told by our ancestors, its just that the story of jesus has very few similaritys to the story of Horus, or any of the other gods that were mentioned. Don't go strictly by the video, read the actual stories, you will see that while most are similar to each other, the story of Jesus has very little in common with the rest. Not to mention it is the only one in wich the character's lives and deaths are documented by historians. These people actually did live, they are not made up characters, they are actual people. Many eye witnesses confirmed the Bibles claims.

These are not just stories that were passed down to kids at bedtime. Hundreds of people claimed to have seen Jesus alive, after they had seen him hanging on the cross. I am sure that if you twist the facts enough, then you can pretend that these stories are similar, but they are not. No one ever claimed to have actually seen Horus, Jesus on the other hand was one of the biggest celebrities of his day, everyone saw him do what he claimed to do.

Are you telling me that if you were there when Jesus claimed to raise Lazurus from the dead, and you saw that he did not really do it, that you wouldn't say something to someone. Anyone would speak out in a situation like that, but no one did, because it actually happened, and everyone saw it plain and clear.
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 04:43 pm
@adam24,
adam24;47516 wrote:
No I do not see how you can compare Jesus and the sun god, I understand why stories were told by our ancestors, its just that the story of jesus has very few similaritys to the story of Horus, or any of the other gods that were mentioned. Don't go strictly by the video, read the actual stories, you will see that while most are similar to each other, the story of Jesus has very little in common with the rest. Not to mention it is the only one in wich the character's lives and deaths are documented by historians. These people actually did live, they are not made up characters, they are actual people. Many eye witnesses confirmed the Bibles claims.

These are not just stories that were passed down to kids at bedtime. Hundreds of people claimed to have seen Jesus alive, after they had seen him hanging on the cross. I am sure that if you twist the facts enough, then you can pretend that these stories are similar, but they are not. No one ever claimed to have actually seen Horus, Jesus on the other hand was one of the biggest celebrities of his day, everyone saw him do what he claimed to do.

Are you telling me that if you were there when Jesus claimed to raise Lazurus from the dead, and you saw that he did not really do it, that you wouldn't say something to someone. Anyone would speak out in a situation like that, but no one did, because it actually happened, and everyone saw it plain and clear.


I would quite like to see eyewitness accounts of Jesus, if you have links and evidence that no other christian has been able to produce I would be very interested in seeing them.

For a celebrity I believe the first written account is 52 A.D, though not by an eyewitness, but by someone who has 'heard' of Jesus' demise. You would expect there to be many accounts of him traveling and performing his miracles, though no one outside of the bible seems to be able to know who he is or even write about him from a first person point of view.

Again though you seem fixated by Horace, Mithra is similar story and very popular 1500 years before and 3-400 years after Jesus.

Do you not see the similarites between the story of jesus and the astrological events of that period in the year. Did you actually watch all three though?
0 Replies
 
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Dec, 2007 09:32 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
You do realize that both Mathew and John (the guys that wrote the gospels) were Jesus' apostles, dont you? How could they have been his apostles without ever actually meeting him?
And what about Luke? He never actually met Jesus, but he was writing his gospel for a freind and gathered the story from eye witnesses, why would he write a metaphor for a freind, and go around asking eye witnesses? Luke was one of the most educated authors of the New testiment, do you really think he would be dumb enough to take a metaphore literally, and go around asking people if they saw it happen?
Also, the Bible is considered by most historians to be the most accurate historical account in existance, are you just choosing to believe that when it says that hundreds of people saw Jesus alive after his crucifixian, that they just lied about that part but not the rest? I can understan if you don't believe the supernatural claims of the bible, but what kind of idiot would claim that hundreds of people saw the same thing as him, if he had no witnesses to back him up?
And yes, I do see a few similarites, but I also see a few similarites between a kitten and an elephent. Both are mammels, both breath air, both eat food, both start out small then gow larger, in fact, I am willing to bet that there are kittens and elephents that were born at the exact same time, does that meen kittens are just a rip off from elephents? No. It just means that there are some similarites...who cares.

And the first account of Jesus' life was written by his apostle Mathew, between 37-68 AD...GEEZ!! Do some research!
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 08:59 am
@adam24,
adam24;47548 wrote:
You do realize that both Mathew and John (the guys that wrote the gospels) were Jesus' apostles, dont you? How could they have been his apostles without ever actually meeting him?
And what about Luke? He never actually met Jesus, but he was writing his gospel for a freind and gathered the story from eye witnesses, why would he write a metaphor for a freind, and go around asking eye witnesses? Luke was one of the most educated authors of the New testiment, do you really think he would be dumb enough to take a metaphore literally, and go around asking people if they saw it happen?
Also, the Bible is considered by most historians to be the most accurate historical account in existance, are you just choosing to believe that when it says that hundreds of people saw Jesus alive after his crucifixian, that they just lied about that part but not the rest? I can understan if you don't believe the supernatural claims of the bible, but what kind of idiot would claim that hundreds of people saw the same thing as him, if he had no witnesses to back him up?
And yes, I do see a few similarites, but I also see a few similarites between a kitten and an elephent. Both are mammels, both breath air, both eat food, both start out small then gow larger, in fact, I am willing to bet that there are kittens and elephents that were born at the exact same time, does that meen kittens are just a rip off from elephents? No. It just means that there are some similarites...who cares.

And the first account of Jesus' life was written by his apostle Mathew, between 37-68 AD...GEEZ!! Do some research!


Out side of the bible, will you show me the eyewitness accounts please. I did my research, I would be interested in seeing yours.

Could you at least show me the hundereds of witnesses accounts of jesus' miracles spoken about which are not in the bible. To use the bible is evidence is ok as long as you can substantiate the evidence with references from impartial sources.

And calm down, take a chill pill and relax. we are debating not having a slanging match. If you wish for me to descend to such adolescent behaviour.I can cuss and be disrespectful with the best of them.
0 Replies
 
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 05:28 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Ok, Mr. Sensitive, no more exclaimation points, I promise.

There are no outside sources that talk about those eyewitnesses, but wouldnt it be pretty stupid of the author to claim that hundreds were there, if no one will admit that they were there? I think that would be a pretty foolish thing to do. If no one actually saw these things, then wouldnt someone speak up? Wouldnt they write something disputing the claims of Mathew and John? Why isnt there even one single document from that day that diputes what those men wrote? If someone says something happened, and not even one single person argues with him, even though he claims that they were all there, then he is probably telling the truth.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 05:45 pm
@adam24,
adam24;47632 wrote:
Ok, Mr. Sensitive, no more exclaimation points, I promise.

There are no outside sources that talk about those eyewitnesses, but wouldnt it be pretty stupid of the author to claim that hundreds were there, if no one will admit that they were there?

yes very

I think that would be a pretty foolish thing to do. If no one actually saw these things, then wouldnt someone speak up?

Why doesn't anyone speak up against the Qu'ran or the Vedas or any other such religious claims?

Wouldnt they write something disputing the claims of Mathew and John? Why isnt there even one single document from that day that diputes what those men wrote? If someone says something happened, and not even one single person argues with him, even though he claims that they were all there, then he is probably telling the truth.

who might you think would "speak up"? The witnesses are the only people who would know whether it happened or not, but there are no witnesses to speak of so who exactly do you expect to "speak up"?



:cool:
0 Replies
 
adam24
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 09:21 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
I am not sure what you mean by that last statement. There were hundreds of witnesses, so I would expect them to speak up. If nothing else, Mathew and John both claimed that there were hundreds of witnesses, why wouldnt anyone ask who they were? Why would thousands of people (the ones they preached to right after the event) just take their word for it? Wouldnt they want to see these witnesses? How did Luke get the story from eyewitness acounts, if there were no eye witnesses? Why wouldnt the sudacees and pharisees, (who hated Jesus) say or write something to inform people that there were no witnesses?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Dec, 2007 03:30 pm
@adam24,
adam24;47703 wrote:
I am not sure what you mean by that last statement.


i am saying that people didn't speak up against the false claims of christanity for the same reason they didn't speak up against the false claims of other religions

Quote:

There were hundreds of witnesses, so I would expect them to speak up. If nothing else, Mathew and John both claimed that there were hundreds of witnesses, why wouldnt anyone ask who they were? Why would thousands of people (the ones they preached to right after the event) just take their word for it?


many people at the time didn't believe in christanity anyway so why would then even bother? And the people who did believe in christanity didn't need to know who the witnesses where because they would believe regardless. Much for the same reason people today do go actively trying to disprove the claims of scientology.

Quote:

How did Luke get the story from eyewitness acounts, if there were no eye witnesses? Why wouldnt the sudacees and pharisees, (who hated Jesus) say or write something to inform people that there were no witnesses?


It was written in a book, they can say whatever the want! The only place that says the pharisees hated jesus was in the bible, considering the fact the there is no historical document of anyone named jesus ever existed!
0 Replies
 
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Dec, 2007 03:40 pm
@adam24,
adam24;47632 wrote:
Ok, Mr. Sensitive, no more exclaimation points, I promise.

There are no outside sources that talk about those eyewitnesses, but wouldnt it be pretty stupid of the author to claim that hundreds were there, if no one will admit that they were there? I think that would be a pretty foolish thing to do. If no one actually saw these things, then wouldnt someone speak up? Wouldnt they write something disputing the claims of Mathew and John? Why isnt there even one single document from that day that diputes what those men wrote? If someone says something happened, and not even one single person argues with him, even though he claims that they were all there, then he is probably telling the truth.


Well I just prefer to debate in an adult manner and try not to be disrespectful, though sometimes I am not. As I said, I can roll with best if you want to get nasty.

No outside sources, what anywhere?

So a man who perfomed so many miracles and talked to, was it 5000 people in the sermon of the mount (correct if wrong). And no single documented account of Jesus by any eyewitness has been found. Yet a single whole book is dedicated to his teachings with all manner of people having been touched by him, but no account appart from this.

You of course don't find this strange and have no urge to verify the existence of a man and god you devote your life to out side of the Bible.
I guess it really is blind faith,..Good Luck with that anyway.
0 Replies
 
reflectedinfinity
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Sep, 2010 06:01 am
Every deity depicted in any "religious" culture has a person with the Sun surrounding their head. MY head and the sun are one. One must leave the realm of words, travel inward within the self. All traditions point in this direction.
Yes, Buddha, Jesus, etc, they are metaphors for enlightenment. However, the mis-understanding is that this means enlightenment is not real. Ahhh...one-ness with the allmighty is factual for those who discover there own divinity within their own bodies. Holding the form of LOVE is a mechanical pre-requisite for entering the dimension of the higher. Great secrets are written in many books.
Because there is a great secret within ourselves.
0 Replies
 
Philis
 
  1  
Reply Tue 31 Jan, 2012 12:58 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
These videos have been terminated in utube.
0 Replies
 
 

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