0
   

Jesus is a metaphor for the sun!

 
 
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2007 02:59 pm
Part 1:
YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie - 2 of 13 (Part 1 of 3 on Religion)



Part 2:
YouTube - Zeitgeist - The Movie - 3 of 13 (Part 2 of 3 on Religion)
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 6,557 • Replies: 36
No top replies

 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Nov, 2007 07:45 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
these videos are the best i've seen yet...very good! i think you guys should check 'em out!
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Sun 18 Nov, 2007 03:27 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;45340 wrote:
these videos are the best i've seen yet...very good! i think you guys should check 'em out!


Ok now they were pretty awsome. I knew the story of jesus ws ripped off from else where, but so many times, wow.

How interesting that christianity comes from paganism and the symbols there of relate to the cycle of the earth. Truely amazing, thank you very much.

Did you see part III?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UdQxt7b24&eurl=http://www.conflictingviews.com/t2533/
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Nov, 2007 08:38 am
@Numpty,
Any of our religous cummunity care to pass coment?

Or as usual when a good argument in favour of jesus not exsisting at all comes up you fail to coment or debate.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Nov, 2007 06:49 pm
@Numpty,
Exactly what i was thinking!
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 03:54 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;45890 wrote:
Ok now they were pretty awsome. I knew the story of jesus ws ripped off from else where, but so many times, wow.

How interesting that christianity comes from paganism and the symbols there of relate to the cycle of the earth. Truely amazing, thank you very much.

Did you see part III?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6UdQxt7b24&eurl=http://www.conflictingviews.com/t2533/


If Christianity comes from paganism, then the sinking of the Titanic was just a story that was borrowed from the book, 'The Futility Of God' by Jack W. Hannah which was first published in 1889. Truely Amazing. I wondered if the captain of the Titanic knew that his ship was going to sink because it was based on Hannah's story line? I knew the story of the Titanic was ripped off from else where. LOL
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 04:00 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;46788 wrote:
If Christianity comes from paganism, then the sinking of the Titanic was just a story that was borrowed from the book, 'The Futility Of God' by Jack W. Hannah which was first published in 1889. Truely Amazing. I wondered if the captain of the Titanic knew that his ship was going to sink because it was based on Hannah's story line? I knew the story of the Titanic was ripped off from else where. LOL


You didn't actually watch them did you?
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 05:32 am
@Numpty,
Numpty;46789 wrote:
You didn't actually watch them did you?


I watched some of it. Its old news to me I have seen it all before. They take stories from the past and do there best to squeeze in simular details to undercut the Christian faith. Yet if you really look at the closer details you soon understand what they are trying to do, and it's about the same as believers in Evolution and their transitionals. Check out the link below.

Are there pagan deities who died and were resurrected?
Numpty
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 05:35 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;46792 wrote:
I watched some of it. Its old news to me I have seen it all before. They take stories from the past and do there best to squeeze in simular details to undercut the Christian faith. Yet if you really look at the closer details you soon understand what they are trying to do, and it's about the same as believers in Evolution and their transitionals. Check out the link below.

Are there pagan deities who died and were resurrected?


You watched some of it!! I'll take that as no then. To close to the bone was it.

I will however extend you the curteosy of watching/ reading all of the link you have posted

Edit- I am reading and it will take a while,...but c'mon the site is called 'About Jesus.org' could you have not found a more nuetral site. These guys think like you, it hardly rates as a constuctive evidence that supports your ideas.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 06:59 pm
@Numpty,
Yes, i went to the site as well....The sheer number of similarities is too hard to ignore, the basic tactic of the christians is to show the differences of said similarities, but really it isn't the differences that matter since they may have existed both before and after said plagurization it is the similarities which can have only existed beforhand...also if someone were to copy or be influenced by a previous text they aren't goin to go word for word copy!

of course the discounted similarities are including the ressurection which christains note the difference of the circumstances but either way its a non-naturalistic event.

I also noticed the webpage criticised supporters of plagurization theroy for not citing their sources when this website is guilty of the same thing!
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Nov, 2007 11:43 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;46837 wrote:
Yes, i went to the site as well....The sheer number of similarities is too hard to ignore, the basic tactic of the christians is to show the differences of said similarities, but really it isn't the differences that matter since they may have existed both before and after said plagurization it is the similarities which can have only existed beforhand...also if someone were to copy or be influenced by a previous text they aren't goin to go word for word copy!

of course the discounted similarities are including the ressurection which christains note the difference of the circumstances but either way its a non-naturalistic event.

I also noticed the webpage criticised supporters of plagurization theroy for not citing their sources when this website is guilty of the same thing!


So your telling me that some how some of these pagan beliefs were used by the Christian Faith even when the prophecies of the Old Testament predated some of these pagan beliefs. The stories have to be really stretched to even get them to fit into the Christian belief. And why would the Christians have to borrow such stories when they already had them in the prophecies of the Old Testament? Like the story of Adonis being born of a virgin. The reality is his mother was turned into a tree by the Gods of compassion and 10 months latter Adonis burst out of the tree. PLEASE. The fact is there are many stories written from the Greeks with many twist and turns, and there are things in them that could be though of as similar if you are willing to ignore the details. Are you aware that the story of Adonis has three versions? And are you aware that not one of those stories have Adonis being born of a virgin? Adonis is said to of been resurrected like Jesus, but unlike Jesus, he dies again and again. How is this anything like resurrection and eternal life promised by Christ? That would be more like the Hindu belief of reincarnation. Maybe thats where they got their idea. The Bible tells us that the time will come when people would rather believe a lie than the truth. If you can imbrace such alleged similarities then maybe that time has already arrived.

COULD YOU PLEASE SHOW ME THE STORY WHERE ADONIS IS BORN OF A VIRGIN? After all, I know how truthful you want to be about all of this.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Nov, 2007 04:18 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;46855 wrote:
So your telling me that some how some of these pagan beliefs were used by the Christian Faith even when the prophecies of the Old Testament predated some of these pagan beliefs.

paganism has been in existance long before christanity, the story of Horus is one of the oldest myths from one of the oldest civilizations, which is believed by many scholars to be the basis for the jesus story!

The stories have to be really stretched to even get them to fit into the Christian belief. And why would the Christians have to borrow such stories when they already had them in the prophecies of the Old Testament?

most of the borrowed stories are much older, egyptian and mesopotamic mythologies/religions are some of the oldest predating christanity by hundreds of years.

Like the story of Adonis being born of a virgin. The reality is his mother was turned into a tree by the Gods of compassion and 10 months latter Adonis burst out of the tree. PLEASE. The fact is there are many stories written from the Greeks with many twist and turns, and there are things in them that could be though of as similar if you are willing to ignore the details. Are you aware that the story of Adonis has...

i have never once compared jesus to adonis, nor have i ever seen the comparison of jesus and adonis by any scholar...this is a straw man fallacy!

The Bible tells us that the time will come when people would rather believe a lie than the truth. If you can imbrace such alleged similarities then maybe that time has already arrived.

...and when people believed in a flat earth that wasn't a lie? when people believed in various cultural pagan gods that wasn't a lie? When people thought lightning was the wrath of god that wasn't a lie? When people thought that magots where born of rotting meat that wasn't a lie? When people believed the earth was the center of the universe that wasn't a lie? and when people believed demons caused mental illness that wasn't a lie?

people today are much more educated than the have been in the past, your statement holds no water!


COULD YOU PLEASE SHOW ME THE STORY WHERE ADONIS IS BORN OF A VIRGIN? After all, I know how truthful you want to be about all of this.

I have never once compared jesus to adonis, nor have i ever seen the comparison of jesus and adonis by any scholar...this is a straw man fallacy!



:lightbulb:
0 Replies
 
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 03:11 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;46788 wrote:
If Christianity comes from paganism, then the sinking of the Titanic was just a story that was borrowed from the book, 'The Futility Of God' by Jack W. Hannah which was first published in 1889. Truely Amazing. I wondered if the captain of the Titanic knew that his ship was going to sink because it was based on Hannah's story line? I knew the story of the Titanic was ripped off from else where. LOL


As always, be blind to anything that opposes your view point.

The other such person around here is that Sword of God. I continue to be amazed at the similarity between these two gentlemen. Its only because a genetic crap shoot decided one would be born into a Christian family and the other into a Muslim. Mr.Campell if born a Muslim would be as fundamentalist a Muslim as The Sword and vice versa.
hatukazi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 03:38 pm
@Adam Bing,
those are taken from the beginning of the movie zietgeist 2007, which my wife hates because she "thinks" they are bashing Jesus.

not true.

so our savior shares some commonalities with other older religions, one of those commonalities is that He is a teacher. They say nothing bad about the teachings of Jesus and it is those teachings that were meant to live on and enlighten through the ages.
0 Replies
 
hatukazi
 
  1  
Reply Fri 30 Nov, 2007 04:01 pm
@Campbell34,
[QUOTE

COULD YOU PLEASE SHOW ME THE STORY WHERE ADONIS IS BORN OF A VIRGIN? After all, I know how truthful you want to be about all of this.[/QUOTE]

the movies most closely compare Jesus to Horus of egypt, I didn't see anything about Adonis.
0 Replies
 
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 07:44 am
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;47049 wrote:
As always, be blind to anything that opposes your view point.

The other such person around here is that Sword of God. I continue to be amazed at the similarity between these two gentlemen. Its only because a genetic crap shoot decided one would be born into a Christian family and the other into a Muslim. Mr.Campell if born a Muslim would be as fundamentalist a Muslim as The Sword and vice versa.


So your good with general negative comments, yet I would love to hear your explanation of the East Gate Prophecy, or perhaps how do you feel about the three hours of darkness at the time of Christ death on the cross. That three hours of darkness has been confirmed by non Biblical sources, and Roman historians. Also at that time of this darkness, the moon was not in a position to be an eclips. Outside of your general negative comments, do you have anything authoritive to add to this?
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 10:49 am
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;47117 wrote:
So your good with general negative comments, yet I would love to hear your explanation of the East Gate Prophecy, or perhaps how do you feel about the three hours of darkness at the time of Christ death on the cross. That three hours of darkness has been confirmed by non Biblical sources, and Roman historians. Also at that time of this darkness, the moon was not in a position to be an eclips. Outside of your general negative comments, do you have anything authoritive to add to this?


To the three hours of darkness at Jesus' death? Given the solid nature of the proof you have on hand, I am speechless. As I am with the matter of the East Gate Prophecy. No, I have no argument against you.
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:09 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;47121 wrote:
To the three hours of darkness at Jesus' death? Given the solid nature of the proof you have on hand, I am speechless. As I am with the matter of the East Gate Prophecy. No, I have no argument against you.


According to Matthew 27:45-54 When Christ died on the cross from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was an earth quake and darkness was over all the land. And it was at this time when the centurion said. "Truly this was the Son of God!"

The first reference found outside the Bible to this event came from a historian named Thallus, who wrote around 52 A.D. His history was quoted by another early writer by the name of Julius Africanus who researched the topic of this darkness and wrote the following:
"Upon the whole world there came a most fearful darkness. Many rocks were split in two by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. It seems very unreasonable to me that Thallus, in the third book of his histories, would try to explain away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun. For the Jews celebrate their Passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the death of our Saviour falls on the day before the Passover. (But an eclipse of the sun can only take place when the moon comes under the sun?")
Another first century historian who also mentions this darkness was Phlegon, who wrote a history entitled the "Olympiads." Julius Africanus mentioned a quote taken from the Olympiads which said:
"Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth... It is evident that he did not know of any such events in previous years."
Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen in his work ''Against Celsus' Book 2: "The darkening of the sun took place at the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus was crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place,

What I find remarkable, is the events that are spoken of in the Bible are confirmed by non Biblical historians. If the Bible is just a myth, why are historians of that day supporting it's claims? The three hours of darkness, the earthquake in Judea, and the fact that the moon was not in the proper position for an eclips to occure. Also Phlegon states in the Olympiads in his thirteenth book that the darkness began at the sixth hour and day was turned to night so that the stars in the heavens were seen, and he also confirms the earthquake. And his time matched the time given in Matthew chapter 27. And again, this was confirmed by non Biblical historians which makes their testimony all the more important.
Adam Bing
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:30 pm
@Campbell34,
Campbell34;47135 wrote:
According to Matthew 27:45-54 When Christ died on the cross from the sixth hour until the ninth hour there was an earth quake and darkness was over all the land. And it was at this time when the centurion said. "Truly this was the Son of God!"

The first reference found outside the Bible to this event came from a historian named Thallus, who wrote around 52 A.D. His history was quoted by another early writer by the name of Julius Africanus who researched the topic of this darkness and wrote the following:
"Upon the whole world there came a most fearful darkness. Many rocks were split in two by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. It seems very unreasonable to me that Thallus, in the third book of his histories, would try to explain away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun. For the Jews celebrate their Passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the death of our Saviour falls on the day before the Passover. (But an eclipse of the sun can only take place when the moon comes under the sun?")
Another first century historian who also mentions this darkness was Phlegon, who wrote a history entitled the "Olympiads." Julius Africanus mentioned a quote taken from the Olympiads which said:
"Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth... It is evident that he did not know of any such events in previous years."
Phlegon is also mentioned by Origen in his work ''Against Celsus' Book 2: "The darkening of the sun took place at the time of Tiberius Caesar, in whose reign Jesus was crucified, and the great earthquakes which then took place,

What I find remarkable, is the events that are spoken of in the Bible are confirmed by non Biblical historians. If the Bible is just a myth, why are historians of that day supporting it's claims? The three hours of darkness, the earthquake in Judea, and the fact that the moon was not in the proper position for an eclips to occure. Also Phlegon states in the Olympiads in his thirteenth book that the darkness began at the sixth hour and day was turned to night so that the stars in the heavens were seen, and he also confirms the earthquake. And his time matched the time given in Matthew chapter 27. And again, this was confirmed by non Biblical historians which makes their testimony all the more important.


Lets focus on our joint rules of investigation. And then apply them to the above claim as well as to others from both sides of the aisle.

Else, you will talk and I will talk and we will talk across each other without listening. Best we arrive at an accord and jointly decide on the rules of the game. As I asked in another post, I invite you to give the first draft unless you want me to. Regards
Campbell34
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 12:37 pm
@Adam Bing,
Adam Bing;47138 wrote:
Lets focus on our joint rules of investigation. And then apply them to the above claim as well as to others from both sides of the aisle.

Else, you will talk and I will talk and we will talk across each other without listening. Best we arrive at an accord and jointly decide on the rules of the game. As I asked in another post, I invite you to give the first draft unless you want me to. Regards


Adam, feel free to lay out the rules and I will try to follow your lead.
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Jesus is a metaphor for the sun!
Copyright © 2022 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 09/27/2022 at 01:30:41