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Sat 25 Aug, 2007 12:42 pm
On the surface Christianity is simple. The message of peace and love can be quite appealing for those seeking something to grasp on to when reality gets to be too much for them to handle.
When one moves beyond the surface however, it becomes a whole different thing. Something more complex. Although the command of all the religions that we should love one another, the specific differences between different factions have been the cause of anything but love.
In Christianity alone there is a divide between the Catholic Church and the Protestant church. Then when we look at the divisive factors that separates one protestant denomination from another in their struggle to please God, that it threatens to destroy the very foundations of Christianity itself.
The differences between their perceptions of God are astounding. Some worshiping a conservative, republican type of God that controls the personal morality of men. This perception of God seems bent on punishing believers who drink alcohol, engage in illicit sex, dance, swear and gamble. However this God has little concern for the sins of the rich and powerful as they have throughout history have enslaved and controlled the not so rich and powerful.
Then there is the more liberal perception of God that is committed to the punishing the sins of racial injustice, materialism, greed, war and the destruction of life yet has selective discipline for some of other sins of man.
It seems that the reality of God exists in the minds of man as is defined by the individual?s level of acceptable sin. This is why I have stated that God was created in mans image.
I?m interested in knowing what Christians think about what Jesus would do about the people that call themselves Christians today. Would he be a supporter of the nosy Christians that badger patients of abortion clinics? Would he advocate the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Would he be forgiving of the churches sex scandal and subsequent cover up? What does He feel about the countless Christian atrocities committed throughout history?
Pentecostalism has become a danger in modern society breeding believers in unrealistic supernatural beliefs such as faith healing and the supposed gifts of the spirit including speaking in tongues and discernation. It is what outsiders would consider to be mental illness. Instead of the joy of peace and love some believers feel, it has become a religion of guilt, fear and disappointment.
The whole process starts with the method of worship, which emphasizes excitement with loud, emotionally manipulative music and loud, emotionally manipulative preachers combining to agitate the congregation into a state of emotional frenzy.
The problem with such emotional subjectivism is that it makes a person spiritually arrogant and immune to any argument or correction. It is the common belief that once one receives the Holy Spirit, it is the third Person of the Trinity who is behind every thought, feeling, opinion, prejudice and inclination in the individual's head. It is a common refrain in Pentecostal circles that "God told me" and obviously there is nothing you can say to such a person that will convince them otherwise. This presumption extends so far that the individual's "feeling" trumps even the Bible's authority.
Another problem is that the belief system makes a person naively credulous about things which are proven false. There has never been a single miracle healing or fulfilled prophecy in the Christian church, yet its hundreds of millions of followers believe that individuals like Benny Hinn or Kim Clement are healing millions of people, predicting the future and even raising the dead.
The fact that those two, as well as many other proven charlatans, have not been tarred and feathered and driven from organized religion is a powerful testimony that the Christian belief system requires the loss of the mind.
Why is this emotionalism and credulity dangerous?
First, because it leads to the creation of new gospels which is an offense against the Christian God. Secondly, because the system which rises up around it is harmful to people because it is false and nothing false can ever be good.
@FedUpAmerican,
Quote:I’m interested in knowing what Christians think about what Jesus would do about the people that call themselves Christians today. Would he be a supporter of the nosy Christians that badger patients of abortion clinics? Would he advocate the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Would he be forgiving of the churches sex scandal and subsequent cover up? What does He feel about the countless Christian atrocities committed throughout history?
thats a hard one , would i love to see Drnaline try and answer this one , oh oh or may be Pinochet73
@politically-wrong,
politically-wrong;32824 wrote:thats a hard one , would i love to see Drnaline try and answer this one , oh oh or may be Pinochet73
get a grip, your questions are rediculous at best. Gods love is unconditional and we have free will to choose or path in life, he loves all his children, but you would not know that following Islam, you must abide by strict rules to be excepted and bend your personality to match the criteria. sounds fake to me.
@FedUpAmerican,
I suppose the guy threw in your degree in theology when he sold the Brooklyn Bridge to you?
@FedUpAmerican,
Quote: I?m interested in knowing what Christians think about what Jesus would do about the people that call themselves Christians today. Would he be a supporter of the nosy Christians that badger patients of abortion clinics? Would he advocate the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Would he be forgiving of the churches sex scandal and subsequent cover up? What does He feel about the countless Christian atrocities committed throughout history?
Considering the situation at the time Jesus walked this earth I'd say christians have evolved as a society. Women are no longer treated like property or cattle. Our children are born free regardless of color, we no longer advocate slavery or use little girls as a monatary source. As for war it's been going on since the dawn of time. Christians have evolved but all Islamic Countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Sudan etc,) are still living in the 700s yet they enjoy all of the modern convienances. Their governments use violence and vice and moral police to keep the people in line. Islam in order to grow needs to keep it's followers illiterate, underfed and fanatical. We learn as we evolve, many religions view the bible as a history book. The bad parts we have learned from the good parts we embrace on a daily basis.
@FedUpAmerican,
You Christians comparing Christianity to Islam is like comparing Bush's war crimes to Clinton's spit shine. Try either staying with the FACTS or actually refuting them with your own.
@FedUpAmerican,
Or she can say what ever she wants regardless of your opinion. On a second note, why don't you try and compile your own toughts instead of copy and paste some thing some one else wrote and then ask others to refute?
@Drnaline,
Drnaline;32919 wrote:Or she can say what ever she wants regardless of your opinion. On a second note, why don't you try and compile your own toughts instead of copy and paste some thing some one else wrote and then ask others to refute?
Sorry, but I am the author of that piece. AGAIN, refute what I post with your own FACTS or even your opinion. Better yet, TRY showing me where I supposedly "copied and pasted" MY article.
But I DO realize that it's much easier to attack the author instead of attacking the FACTS. Christians have been doing that for centuries.
It shows how weak their faith is.
But you folks DO amuse me.
@FedUpAmerican,
I'll amuse you all the way off the board. I've already closed one on you and i'm not to far of closing another.
@FedUpAmerican,
Threaten me all you like junior. I say what I post in my original work and quite factual. Your blatant censorship is reflective of the right wing seudo Christian-Republican crap that bush and his minions have shoved down the throats of American citizens for years now.
I am not intimidated or scared of your threats. IF you had any guts you would present facts to refute ANY of my posts.
Why dont you at least try? What are you afraid of?
I am not the boogeyman. I am simply a person that offers opposing viewpoints.
Unless of course what I post rings true and you CAN'T refute what I post.
How about this. I challenge you to a debate on ANY Christian topic you wish. YOU select the topic.
Are you up for the challenge or will you exercise your power to lock a thread that you don't agree with AGAIN?
Are you a man or a mouse?
@FedUpAmerican,
Quote:How about this. I challenge you to a debate on ANY Christian topic you wish. YOU select the topic.
Why does it have to be Christian, have a problem with anything else? I got one for you I'll do it but you defend the Christians? LOL Man or mouse works both ways?
@FedUpAmerican,
Typical mouse. Why would I defend something I don't believe in?
If your afraid I TOTALLY understand.
@FedUpAmerican,
Quote:get a grip, your questions are rediculous at best. Gods love is unconditional and we have free will to choose or path in life, he loves all his children, but you would not know that following Islam, you must abide by strict rules to be excepted and bend your personality to match the criteria. sounds fake to me
your post would have been wonderfull if i had posted any questions actually i didnot , i dont think i need to any way looolz fedup is fedup with all of you
Quote:Considering the situation at the time Jesus walked this earth I'd say christians have evolved as a society. Women are no longer treated like property or cattle. Our children are born free regardless of color, we no longer advocate slavery or use little girls as a monatary source. As for war it's been going on since the dawn of time. Christians have evolved but all Islamic Countries (Iran, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, UAE, Sudan etc,) are still living in the 700s yet they enjoy all of the modern convienances. Their governments use violence and vice and moral police to keep the people in line. Islam in order to grow needs to keep it's followers illiterate, underfed and fanatical. We learn as we evolve, many religions view the bible as a history book. The bad parts we have learned from the good parts we embrace on a daily basis
nice post red , but attacking the middle east culture has nothing to do with the thread or answering Fedup , you cant answer him so you are trying to find your self a prey ( poor me
) but its so obvious to me how non of you is able to refute this guys statement , its always the same with the truth no one can refute it , better luck next time .
from the victim of RED's inability to logically refute Fedup's truthfull statements
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;32973 wrote:Typical mouse. Why would I defend something I don't believe in?
If your afraid I TOTALLY understand.
Heah i just told you i would do it provided you defend the Christians. I await your approval. As you said, i pose the question back at you, man or mouse?
Quote:Why would I defend something I don't believe in?
What's the matter, SCARED? In your fit of emotion i guess you put your foot in your mouth. I accept your challenge with a stipulation of my own and now you mouse out? Wow, who would of figured you would cower so easyily when one post ago you were so brave?
@FedUpAmerican,
You're right. I said I would debate on any TOPIC that you chose. What does that have to do with me "defending Christianity?"
You're not making much sense with your comments.
So I AGAIN throw down the gauntlet.
BTW, "fit of emotion?" LOL! Do you really think I get emotional about a written word? You give yourself FAR too much credit.
Do you have the guts to debate me or are you just going to TRY to manipulate words? C'mon man, you're NOT looking too good here.
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;33015 wrote:You're right. I said I would debate on any TOPIC that you chose. What does that have to do with me "defending Christianity?"
You're not making much sense with your comments.
So I AGAIN throw down the gauntlet.
BTW, "fit of emotion?" LOL! Do you really think I get emotional about a written word? You give yourself FAR too much credit.
Do you have the guts to debate me or are you just going to TRY to manipulate words? C'mon man, you're NOT looking too good here.
Quote:So I AGAIN throw down the gauntlet.
Instead of throwing it why don't you pick it up. When i picked it up, i put a note in it and threw it back. The note said yes provided you defend. For some reason you didn't read the note of approval? The offer still stands provided you pick it up and run with it?
Quote:BTW, "fit of emotion?" LOL! Do you really think I get emotional about a written word?
Waaaaaaaaaaay emo. IMO to the point of hate.
Quote:C'mon man, you're NOT looking too good here
ME? You were so confident with your assumption that you spouted off. Your aguement is soooooo good that in your mind you can't defend the otherside. Little short sighted eh? I accepted your offer and as you made no stipulation that i couldn't add to it, so i did. And now it is you who feels somewhat indefencible?
Quote:Do you have the guts to debate me or are you just going to TRY to manipulate words?
Manipulate what words, please quote me? I accepted with a stipulation, if you are not man enough to accept this that is your problem.
@FedUpAmerican,
So you
are afraid?
Good job. Add that with your blatant censorship, on a site that promises to be a "Political & Religion
Discussion and Debate Forum" shows your true colors. I guess that means only what you agree with.
But thats OK. I guess you NEED stipulations to make yourself feel superior.
When you think you have the guts to REALLY accept my challenge, look me up. For someone thats so into hang gliding and hot rodding, you sure don't have much in the way of courage.
AGAIN, pick a topic about Christianity junior. Quit hiding behind your stipulations.
Show everyone that you have
some integrity.
ROFL!!!
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;33038 wrote:So you are afraid?
Good job. Add that with your blatant censorship, on a site that promises to be a "Political & Religion Discussion and Debate Forum" shows your true colors. I guess that means only what you agree with.
But thats OK. I guess you NEED stipulations to make yourself feel superior.
When you think you have the guts to REALLY accept my challenge, look me up. For someone thats so into hang gliding and hot rodding, you sure don't have much in the way of courage.
AGAIN, pick a topic about Christianity junior. Quit hiding behind your stipulations.
Show everyone that you have some integrity.
ROFL!!!
When ever your ready the offer still stands.
Quote:Good job. Add that with your blatant censorship, on a site that promises to be a "Political & Religion Discussion and Debate Forum" shows your true colors. I guess that means only what you agree with.
Did you fail to read the forum rules? It is not subject to your interpretation. Your neither discussing nor debating, you are insighting. That is my opinion and the one the counts.
Quote:But thats OK. I guess you NEED stipulations to make yourself feel superior.
No the fact that Brent asked me to moderate makes me superior. But it can be taken away at any time i suppose.
Quote:When you think you have the guts to REALLY accept my challenge, look me up.
I'm not going anywhere, although you may be.
Quote:For someone thats so into hang gliding and hot rodding, you sure don't have much in the way of courage.
Anyday you think you got the balls to jump off a cliff with a kite strapped to you back, come on down. I'll comfort your next of kin. I've been up to 13,500 feet and flew as long as two and a half hours. All using no power but the wind. Man or mouse?
Quote:AGAIN, pick a topic about Christianity junior. Quit hiding behind your stipulations.
The topic is you defending Christians, GO!!!!
Quote:Show everyone that you have some integrity.
Integrity is what you will use to accept my offer?
@FedUpAmerican,
Dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. If you had the courage that you say you have, you wouldn't hide behind a ridiculous stipulation. Allthough clever, it lends NOTHING to the thread.
So, I'll just leave you to your last word that you will inevitably post. I proved MY point. Thats good enough for me.
Keep deleting what I post. Thats the same censorship that Hitler, another Christian, tried. It's the same censorship bush, yet ANOTHER Christian has been trying. Intelligent people see through it.
I would NEVER defend Christianity. Nor will I ever defend pedophiles or republicans.
AGAIN, when you grow a set of balls, look me up.
Peace out!
@FedUpAmerican,
FedUpAmerican;33051 wrote:Dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. If you had the courage that you say you have, you wouldn't hide behind a ridiculous stipulation. Allthough clever, it lends NOTHING to the thread.
So, I'll just leave you to your last word that you will inevitably post. I proved MY point. Thats good enough for me.
Keep deleting what I post. Thats the same censorship that Hitler, another Christian, tried. It's the same censorship bush, yet ANOTHER Christian has been trying. Intelligent people see through it.
I would NEVER defend Christianity. Nor will I ever defend pedophiles or republicans.
AGAIN, when you grow a set of balls, look me up.
Peace out!
Quote:Dude, I'm not trying to argue with you. If you had the courage that you say you have, you wouldn't hide behind a ridiculous stipulation.
I have the courage to take my life into my own hands when i fly. You on the other hand have no courage to take on some one on the ground. Because of a simple stipulation that you are not capable of handling?
Quote:Allthough clever, it lends NOTHING to the thread.
It lends nothing because you are affraid of accepting my stipulation, i accepted your offer why will you not reciprocate?
Quote:So, I'll just leave you to your last word that you will inevitably post.
Yes i will. Don't forget to close the door on your way out.
Quote:I proved MY point. Thats good enough for me.
Yeah but it made you look bad infront of everybody else.
Quote:Keep deleting what I post. Thats the same censorship that Hitler, another Christian, tried. It's the same censorship bush, yet ANOTHER Christian has been trying. Intelligent people see through it.
Intelligent people would also understand that this is a business.The reason you can't or wont is because IMO you are incapable.
Quote:AGAIN, when you grow a set of balls, look me up.
My balls will be waiting where they have always been. Right here with me, should you ever find yours this thread will still be here.
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