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Finally enlightenment for some misguided Christians. Will Islam follow?

 
 
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 01:35 pm
Finally enlightenment for some misguided Christians. Will Islam follow?

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russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 03:02 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Christians are finally recognizing that if God did not want Gays here, He would not created them.

How can they recognize that if god works in mysterious ways?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 04:56 pm
@russ cv,
russ;71602 wrote:
Christians are finally recognizing that if God did not want Gays here, He would not created them.

How can they recognize that if god works in mysterious ways?


How can God be so mysterious if we are made in His image. Are we working in mysterious ways?
I don't think so.
What kind of father would keep secrets from his children.


Further following God is important to some. If your God is so mysterious, it sounds more like you are following the great deceiver, Satan. He would keep secrets.

Make sure you know who you follow and why.

Regards
DL
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 May, 2010 05:03 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
I should clarify that I don't believe there is such a thing as a god.
My point was that christians often claim that their god works in mysterious ways, in which case how have they finally deciphered his motive?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 08:57 am
@russ cv,
russ;71620 wrote:
I should clarify that I don't believe there is such a thing as a god.
My point was that christians often claim that their god works in mysterious ways, in which case how have they finally deciphered his motive?


We agree on the non existing Bible God.

I am a Deist though, my closest label, but the God I know is not here to lead mankind in any direct way and does not expect adoration. I can no more prove my Godhead than other believers so don't ask for proof.

Literalists and fundamentals have no need to decipher much of anything. to do so they would have to question and they tend not to. they just follow like good sheep.

Regards
DL
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:25 am
@Greatest I am cv,
It's odd.

If there was an omnipotent and just god, it wouldn't make much sense for it to pick favorites, yet this is precisely what many believe.
0 Replies
 
russ cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:25 am
@Greatest I am cv,
More specifically, I'm trying to resolve:

The logic:
"Christians are finally recognizing that if God did not want Gays here, He would not created them."

and the mysterious:
How can they recognize that if god works in mysterious ways?
0 Replies
 
theophilus cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 09:55 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;71598 wrote:
Christians are finally recognizing that if God did not want Gays here, He would not created them.
Is there any evidence that God did create gays? He started the human race with a man and a woman. Because they disobeyed the entire human race became corrupted and subject to sin and death.

Homosexual practice is one of the sins which people commit. Like any other sin it can be forgiven if the person committing it repents and puts his faith in Jesus Christ, but the first step to being forgiven is to recognize that it is a sin. People who urge acceptance of homosexuality may believe that they are helping gays but in fact they are harming them by keeping them from recognizing the true natue of what they are doing.

Here is an entry about this subject in my blog:

Warning To Gays - Christian Doctrine Discussion, Debate Forums, Christian Blogs and Chat Rooms

Quote:
Make sure you know who you follow and why.
This is good advice. I hope you follow it.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 11:37 am
@theophilus cv,
theophilus;71652 wrote:
Is there any evidence that God did create gays? He started the human race with a man and a woman. Because they disobeyed the entire human race became corrupted and subject to sin and death.

Homosexual practice is one of the sins which people commit. Like any other sin it can be forgiven if the person committing it repents and puts his faith in Jesus Christ, but the first step to being forgiven is to recognize that it is a sin. People who urge acceptance of homosexuality may believe that they are helping gays but in fact they are harming them by keeping them from recognizing the true natue of what they are doing.



What utter nonsense.

There was this person who I knew since grade-school, And the first time I met him I knew he was gay, 13 years later he came out. For the most part sexual orientation is biologically determined, there are studies that show the relationship between male hormone levels and sexual orientation. It is undeniable. You don't choose who you are attracted to, the only way this can change is through some traumatic event, such as childhood molestation.

People simply deny the scientific evidence because if they recognized homosexuality as genetic they would have trouble justifying their prejudice.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:00 pm
@theophilus cv,
theophilus;71652 wrote:
Is there any evidence that God did create gays? He started the human race with a man and a woman. Because they disobeyed the entire human race became corrupted and subject to sin and death.

Homosexual practice is one of the sins which people commit. Like any other sin it can be forgiven if the person committing it repents and puts his faith in Jesus Christ, but the first step to being forgiven is to recognize that it is a sin. People who urge acceptance of homosexuality may believe that they are helping gays but in fact they are harming them by keeping them from recognizing the true natue of what they are doing.

Here is an entry about this subject in my blog:

Warning To Gays - Christian Doctrine Discussion, Debate Forums, Christian Blogs and Chat Rooms

This is good advice. I hope you follow it.


Ephesians 3:9
And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 3:8-10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

This says that God is creating all at all times.
You should really try for enlightenment like the brighter Christians are doing.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 May, 2010 02:01 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71657 wrote:
What utter nonsense.

There was this person who I knew since grade-school, And the first time I met him I knew he was gay, 13 years later he came out. For the most part sexual orientation is biologically determined, there are studies that show the relationship between male hormone levels and sexual orientation. It is undeniable. You don't choose who you are attracted to, the only way this can change is through some traumatic event, such as childhood molestation.

People simply deny the scientific evidence because if they recognized homosexuality as genetic they would have trouble justifying their prejudice.


Good point.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
theophilus cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 09:32 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71657 wrote:
You don't choose who you are attracted to,
You can't choose who you are attracted to but you can choose whether or not you act on that attraction.

Quote:
People simply deny the scientific evidence because if they recognized homosexuality as genetic they would have trouble justifying their prejudice.
Not everyone agrees that homosexuality is genetic. Perhaps you should check out these two sites:

NARTH Home Page

Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX)

If homosexuality is genetic how do you explain the existence of an organization of ex-gays?
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 May, 2010 09:09 pm
@theophilus cv,
theophilus;71672 wrote:
You can't choose who you are attracted to but you can choose whether or not you act on that attraction.

Not everyone agrees that homosexuality is genetic. Perhaps you should check out these two sites:

Quote:

NARTH Home Page

Parents and Friends of Ex-Gays and Gays (PFOX)

If homosexuality is genetic how do you explain the existence of an organization of ex-gays?


These organizations are a joke. They simply pressure gays to feel guilty about their otherwise natural feelings, until they 'pretend' to be straight, based on their own religious dogma.

These efforts are not based on any recognizable scientific data, nor are efforts to change sexual orientation recommended by any respected major professional health organization.

It's just as silly as the catholic church's effort to convince children that masturbation is wrong. It's no different.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 May, 2010 01:42 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
I received this elsewhere and thought it was excellent.
I added the quotes.

Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

Ephesians 3:8-10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


The existence of Gays, male or female, proves that no God currently claimed by the monotheistic religions, in fact exists as the claim that this God is omnipotent and the creator of all things would not create any being that was not genetically perfect in the nature of any animal species. Thus it follows that because homosexuality involves a variation in sexuality which in not of the normal range for copulation to produce offspring in the human species, such perfection has not been achieved. Thus perfection has not been achieved, thus no God exists. And don't forget other birth variations as well! The claim by Christian that Jesus was a God in human form is also a nonsense belief also and totally unverifiable just as his claimed resurrection rather than a revitalization after his crucifixion, is. As for Jews and Muslims' attitudes to homosexuality, the creation factor simply applies to negate all their claims.

Regards
DL
theophilus cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 10:26 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;71769 wrote:
The existence of Gays, male or female, proves that no God currently claimed by the monotheistic religions, in fact exists as the claim that this God is omnipotent and the creator of all things would not create any being that was not genetically perfect in the nature of any animal species.
What you are overlooking the that the human race is no longer in the condition in which it was created. When Adam disobeyed he brought sin into the world and as a result humans are now imperfect.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 May, 2010 12:56 pm
@theophilus cv,
theophilus;71781 wrote:
What you are overlooking the that the human race is no longer in the condition in which it was created. When Adam disobeyed he brought sin into the world and as a result humans are now imperfect.


Sure the sin of elevating man above the dumb animals.
Not all of us I see.

Do you think man is a better man without the moral sense that the knowledge of good and evil gives us?

Hey, if you do not want to believe your Bible on perfection as in this rather clear case, that means that there is some hope for enlightenment for you.
Keep up the good work.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
theophilus cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 09:43 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71680 wrote:
These efforts are not based on any recognizable scientific data, nor are efforts to change sexual orientation recommended by any respected major professional health organization.
Perhaps the reason health organizations can't change sexual orientation is that they are using the wrong methods. Here is a statement by someone who has changed from being homosexual to heterosexual:

Quote:


You can read his complete story here:

Healing from homosexuality (OneNewsNow.com)

His change wasn't brought about by any kind of medical therapy but by the power of God.
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 May, 2010 10:01 am
@theophilus cv,
theophilus;71908 wrote:
Perhaps the reason health organizations can't change sexual orientation is that they are using the wrong methods. Here is a statement by someone who has changed from being homosexual to heterosexual:



You can read his complete story here:

Healing from homosexuality (OneNewsNow.com)

His change wasn't brought about by any kind of medical therapy but by the power of God.


That's exactly what i'm talking about! Scientists aren't using the wrong method, these people are simply being pressured to feel guilty about being gay until they pretend to be straight. There is nothing scientific about that at all. It's purely based on religious prejudice. You don't choose to be gay anymore than you choose to be straight.

Trying to cure gays is like trying to cure "left handed people" (which has a historical basis to it), being left handed isn't a disease and neither is homosexuality. It's not something that can be cured and to say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 27 May, 2010 09:40 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71909 wrote:
That's exactly what i'm talking about! Scientists aren't using the wrong method, these people are simply being pressured to feel guilty about being gay until they pretend to be straight. There is nothing scientific about that at all. It's purely based on religious prejudice. You don't choose to be gay anymore than you choose to be straight.

Trying to cure gays is like trying to cure "left handed people" (which has a historical basis to it), being left handed isn't a disease and neither is homosexuality. It's not something that can be cured and to say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.


When you follow a God that would rather kill His children than cure them, you will always think a bit strangely about choices.

They do not have choices.
They must do as told or burn forever.

Theo be a people, not a sheeple.
That is what God wants.


Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
theophilus cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2010 10:50 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;71909 wrote:
Trying to cure gays is like trying to cure "left handed people" (which has a historical basis to it), being left handed isn't a disease and neither is homosexuality. It's not something that can be cured and to say otherwise is incredibly ignorant.
There is a major differences between left handedness and homosexuality. Human anatomy shows that it was designed to be heterosexual. There is no corresponding difference between the left and right hands so there is no reason one should be preferred over the other.
 

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