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Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

 
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 05:40 am
@Makedde,
Makedde;62509 wrote:
Children should be taught about things that can be proven. They should not be taught theories from a book. If the childs parents wish for them to learn about religion, then this should take place at home, not in school.


Thanks for this.

One for me.

Just kidding. It is seldom that a clear yes or no is given.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 05:42 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62511 wrote:
Personally, I believe that the greatest things that children can be taught are not "facts" but rather life lessons that promote curious and inquiring minds and a propensity to think for themselves.


Fundamentals will not like you.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 05:44 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62510 wrote:
No. He did not take away the gift of life already given. He simply chose not to give more of it.

Here is an example:

Let us say that I give you a dollar every day and you come to expect that dollar every day. You even begin to think that the dollar a day you receive is yours and it is your right to receive it. Now, for whatever reason, I stop giving you that dollar a day (but the dollars that I gave you are still yours). Have I taken anything from you or have I simply chosen not to give you any more of what was mine to give or not give as I chose?


I'll move in and be yours for 50 a day.
Make it 100 if I have to listen to you.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Wed 19 Nov, 2008 08:07 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62510 wrote:
No. He did not take away the gift of life already given. He simply chose not to give more of it.



By committing global genocide?

Your argument is spacious at best.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2008 11:44 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62527 wrote:
By committing global genocide?

Your argument is spacious at best.


To not give life means not doing anything. To flood is to end life and kill.

Genocide is genocide.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Sabz5150
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 01:11 am
@Makedde,
Makedde;62509 wrote:
Children should be taught about things that can be proven. They should not be taught theories from a book. If the childs parents wish for them to learn about religion, then this should take place at home, not in school.


Children should be taught fact, those things which can be shown and have evidence to back them up.
marcus cv
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Nov, 2008 09:49 am
@Sabz5150,
Before eve disobeyed God you can see that he already questioned God goodness. God told them not to eat from the tree, but she is responding to the Satan said that God told us not to eat and not to touch. (there was no prohibition of touching the tree).
Adam and Eve preferred to believe someone else than God, specifically, that God was holding something good from them. All the Satan needed to do, is to spark that doubt and the fire of disobedience covered Adam and Eve, and spread to the all humanity.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Dec, 2008 12:01 pm
@marcus cv,
marcus;62555 wrote:
Before eve disobeyed God you can see that he already questioned God goodness. God told them not to eat from the tree, but she is responding to the Satan said that God told us not to eat and not to touch. (there was no prohibition of touching the tree).
Adam and Eve preferred to believe someone else than God, specifically, that God was holding something good from them. All the Satan needed to do, is to spark that doubt and the fire of disobedience covered Adam and Eve, and spread to the all humanity.


If Eve had not eaten, we would not have moral sense.

Would you give up yours and follow God without having a clue as to why?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 05:14 am
@marcus cv,
marcus;62555 wrote:
Before eve disobeyed God you can see that he already questioned God goodness. God told them not to eat from the tree, but she is responding to the Satan said that God told us not to eat and not to touch. (there was no prohibition of touching the tree).
Adam and Eve preferred to believe someone else than God, specifically, that God was holding something good from them. All the Satan needed to do, is to spark that doubt and the fire of disobedience covered Adam and Eve, and spread to the all humanity.


So why was the tree even there in the first place?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 05:42 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62791 wrote:
So why was the tree even there in the first place?


I believe that Eve did exactly what she was intended to do. The fall was not a fall but a glorious leap to the history that came after. Without her, we would not have a history at all.

Regards
DL
physicistphilosopher
 
  1  
Reply Thu 4 Dec, 2008 07:30 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Is it moral to teach children to hate their own bodies and to abhor relying on their own minds? Is it moral to teach children to base their lives on something that has no arguments in favor of it of any motivating interest? I think not.

The question of the Bible's blatant absurdities I think takes second place to the insidious brainwashing that permeates throughout. My first impulse was to offer that Christianity be taught as something cultural, in the same style as teaching the classics. Then I thought again, and I would hesitate to expose a child to a system of thought so self-immolating.

Why you would use authority (parental or teacher role) to instill in a child reverence for madness seems unintelligible to me to say the least... But in a nation willing to consider a bailout for automakers, it may make sense to teach children that a dead madman, oops, I meant a resurrected messiah and his tent-making mouthpiece offer the path to salvation. Though I've always wondered- salvation from what, exactly?
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Dec, 2008 12:24 am
@physicistphilosopher,
physicistphilosopher;62811 wrote:
Is it moral to teach children to hate their own bodies and to abhor relying on their own minds? Is it moral to teach children to base their lives on something that has no arguments in favor of it of any motivating interest? I think not.

The question of the Bible's blatant absurdities I think takes second place to the insidious brainwashing that permeates throughout. My first impulse was to offer that Christianity be taught as something cultural, in the same style as teaching the classics. Then I thought again, and I would hesitate to expose a child to a system of thought so self-immolating.

Why you would use authority (parental or teacher role) to instill in a child reverence for madness seems unintelligible to me to say the least... But in a nation willing to consider a bailout for automakers, it may make sense to teach children that a dead madman, oops, I meant a resurrected messiah and his tent-making mouthpiece offer the path to salvation. Though I've always wondered- salvation from what, exactly?



I see that we are warriors in the same camp. I am as anti Fundamental as you are and we would likely agree on most things where the Bible is concerned.

Any logical mind should be with us and likely are but unfortunately we are dealing with sheep who have put thinking in neutral and it is hard as hell to kick start them back up again. I have yet to find the way to do so. If you find the key then please let me know. My success over the years is close to 0. Their indoctrination runs deep because of the success of the orthodox church.

I have made many of them run away and hide but that is not the same or as worthwhile as converting them.

I hope your moniker is true to your position in life because you will need much of those qualities if you want success.

My best weapon in our fight is their own Bible. There is plenty of ammo there for us. I find that if I can use humor against them it is more rewarding than a frontal lobe attack. At least they return for more instead of running away. This gives me more time to dig into their stupid brains. I cannot add to their guilt if they are gone with their tails tucked. It took me some time to figure this out because of my own bullish personality. I am working on this but still end up ignoring the more thumper type of individual.

My wife tells me that sugar catches more flies than what my natural personality does and she is right. I cannot be nice for the life of me with them and this is why I am trying to turn my anger into humor. I hope I can succeed but it is hard to find something funny to say about a genocidal maniac. Oops there I go reverting again.

Welcome to our army and go get them tiger. I hope your success is greater than mine as it is hard to use reason on people who believe in talking snakes and 10 headed monsters. If you are to stick with your fighting method then you might want to check some of what I have written for ammo and hope that you have the eloquence that I lack to turn it to humor.

Regards
DL
physicistphilosopher
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2008 12:50 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Ah, but I think it is more useful to take "their" Bible away from them than to use it against them. Then use of rational thought is devastating because it requires falling back on either infinite regression or a plethora of logical fallacies on their side.

How do we know the Bible is true?

Because God says so.

How do we know that God is real or true or this.that way?

Because the Bible says so.

Question begging anyone?

Of course it can be said that no amount of logic will convince a believer. This is true in many cases, and I am sympathetic to anyone who experiences as I have the failure of reason to convert as faith does. This it seems, leads us to a question for another thread: Are reason and faith compatible at all? Prima facie, it seems not at all. I think a deeper investigation will comfirm my hypothesis.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 8 Dec, 2008 11:59 pm
@physicistphilosopher,
physicistphilosopher;62878 wrote:
Ah, but I think it is more useful to take "their" Bible away from them than to use it against them. Then use of rational thought is devastating because it requires falling back on either infinite regression or a plethora of logical fallacies on their side.

How do we know the Bible is true?

Because God says so.

How do we know that God is real or true or this.that way?

Because the Bible says so.

Question begging anyone?

Of course it can be said that no amount of logic will convince a believer. This is true in many cases, and I am sympathetic to anyone who experiences as I have the failure of reason to convert as faith does. This it seems, leads us to a question for another thread: Are reason and faith compatible at all? Prima facie, it seems not at all. I think a deeper investigation will comfirm my hypothesis.


Their beliefs cannot be taken away. They can only be changed. Taking their Bible away only leaves a void in their book case. They would still believe in 10 headed monsters. This belief cannot be deleted from their files. The file must then be marked as fiction and not as fact.

If logic will not work on a mind then we can say that that mind is somehow deformed or sick. Indoctrination has made it ill.

Is logic and faith compatible. Not blind faith for sure. Faith lead by logic, yes.

Regards
DL
physicistphilosopher
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2008 02:39 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;62897 wrote:
Their beliefs cannot be taken away. They can only be changed. Taking their Bible away only leaves a void in their book case. They would still believe in 10 headed monsters. This belief cannot be deleted from their files. The file must then be marked as fiction and not as fact.

If logic will not work on a mind then we can say that that mind is somehow deformed or sick. Indoctrination has made it ill.

Is logic and faith compatible. Not blind faith for sure. Faith lead by logic, yes.

Regards
DL


It seems to me that the successful approach is not to try and change belief, which simply will not happen, but rather to reduce the influence of the religious (fundamental or otherwise) in society. I honestly couldn't care less if someone wanted to believe in talking snakes or ten headed monsters, the contention begins when one who holds this sort of belief wants to assert that it is moral or correct. Abdication of reality is fine, so long as you keep your abdication to yourself.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 9 Dec, 2008 10:31 pm
@physicistphilosopher,
physicistphilosopher;62899 wrote:
It seems to me that the successful approach is not to try and change belief, which simply will not happen, but rather to reduce the influence of the religious (fundamental or otherwise) in society. I honestly couldn't care less if someone wanted to believe in talking snakes or ten headed monsters, the contention begins when one who holds this sort of belief wants to assert that it is moral or correct. Abdication of reality is fine, so long as you keep your abdication to yourself.



If we never correct each other then we will all end up stupid.
I see it as a duty.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
 

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