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Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

 
 
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2008 05:36 am
Is it moral to teach children that there are talking snakes?

Much has been said of late about Jesus schools and other places where strange concepts of religion are taught. This breeds fundamentalism.

Fundamentalism seems to be rather violent and yet as a society of living souls, we sit back and let it continue.

No fundamental wing of a religion is beneficial. Yet most heads of those same religions are not as firm in reigning them in as they should be. Is any publicity good publicity as they say?

I ask the above question as a moral issue.
Is it right to withhold truth or lie to children in maters that will effect their lives in a profound way?

If truth is of value should we not always give it as best we can?

Regards
DL
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Type: Discussion • Score: 1 • Views: 1,656 • Replies: 35
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Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2008 12:53 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
In my careful consideration and intuition, it is of this i am inclined to say that the progeny of any honest and fair peoples should be taught that of the most discernable fact and statistics and given the knowledge and tools to make reasonable conclusions and decide therafter on the truthfulness of any faith matter. In lieu of religious convictions being instilled within young impressionable minds, it is not only the duty but the obligation of mentors and providers to raise the young to be independent in matters of belief capable of forming their own opinions on important subjects. In equitable sincerity it is progeny who ideally should be raised without religious convictions and only after developing a solid foundation for holding these convictions should they then maintain them in cognitive and deliberate thought.


and yes you can quote me on that. Wink
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Nov, 2008 10:12 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62191 wrote:
In my careful consideration and intuition, it is of this i am inclined to say that the progeny of any honest and fair peoples should be taught that of the most discernable fact and statistics and given the knowledge and tools to make reasonable conclusions and decide therafter on the truthfulness of any faith matter. In lieu of religious convictions being instilled within young impressionable minds, it is not only the duty but the obligation of mentors and providers to raise the young to be independent in matters of belief capable of forming their own opinions on important subjects. In equitable sincerity it is progeny who ideally should be raised without religious convictions and only after developing a solid foundation for holding these convictions should they then maintain them in cognitive and deliberate thought.


and yes you can quote me on that. Wink


I just might.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 03:02 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Christians don't teach that there are talking snakes. Christians do teach that Satan appeared as a talking snake.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Nov, 2008 11:09 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62368 wrote:
Christians don't teach that there are talking snakes. Christians do teach that Satan appeared as a talking snake.


Perhaps, although I have spoken with many that believe it.
Even your proposition though begs the question of why God would allow even this as it pits a supernatural entity against a mere human. Eve nor any of us would have a chance because it would appear as a God compared to us.

Eve eating of it gave us our moral sense. Would you give up yours ore would you let her eat of it? Remember that the Church works hard to instill that same moral sense within us. Are they wrong to eat of it as well?

Regards
DL
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 06:29 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62368 wrote:
Christians don't teach that there are talking snakes. Christians do teach that Satan appeared as a talking snake.


there was one when satan appeared as it.

nevertheless, it is equally ridiculous.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 06:33 am
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62391 wrote:
there was one when satan appeared as it.

nevertheless, it is equally ridiculous.


I agree.

regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 07:45 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;62382 wrote:
Perhaps, although I have spoken with many that believe it.
Even your proposition though begs the question of why God would allow even this as it pits a supernatural entity against a mere human. Eve nor any of us would have a chance because it would appear as a God compared to us.

Eve eating of it gave us our moral sense. Would you give up yours ore would you let her eat of it? Remember that the Church works hard to instill that same moral sense within us. Are they wrong to eat of it as well?

Regards
DL


It was only "a supernatural entity against a mere human" because Adam and Eve did not turn to God for their support but tried to deal with the snake on their own.


I believe Adam and Eve had a moral sense before eating the apple. What they did by eating the apple was pridefully determine that their moral sense was superior to Gods. Part of a Christians moral sense should be the humility to realize that Gods moral sense is greater than his or her moral sense.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 10:22 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62398 wrote:
It was only "a supernatural entity against a mere human" because Adam and Eve did not turn to God for their support but tried to deal with the snake on their own.


I believe Adam and Eve had a moral sense before eating the apple. What they did by eating the apple was pridefully determine that their moral sense was superior to Gods. Part of a Christians moral sense should be the humility to realize that Gods moral sense is greater than his or her moral sense.


Moral sense consists of knowledge of good and evil. If they already had moral sense, what is wrong with acquiring the same knowledge again from the tree? There should be no penalty.

How could they have previous moral sense? You made that up right?

Regards
DL
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 11:10 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62398 wrote:
It was only "a supernatural entity against a mere human" because Adam and Eve did not turn to God for their support but tried to deal with the snake on their own.


I believe Adam and Eve had a moral sense before eating the apple. What they did by eating the apple was pridefully determine that their moral sense was superior to Gods. Part of a Christians moral sense should be the humility to realize that Gods moral sense is greater than his or her moral sense.


Perhaps the garden of Eden story is simply a metaphor of a choice between innocence and knowledge, not to be taken literally.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Nov, 2008 11:27 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62424 wrote:
Perhaps the garden of Eden story is simply a metaphor of a choice between innocence and knowledge, not to be taken literally.


I see it in part as a growing up story. From innocence to adulthood with the inclusion of sex and child bearing.

If we include the knowledge of good and evil then we see graduation day.

A good day, not a fall but a leap into creating a history.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 11:13 am
@Greatest I am cv,
Greatest I am;62423 wrote:
Moral sense consists of knowledge of good and evil. If they already had moral sense, what is wrong with acquiring the same knowledge again from the tree? There should be no penalty.

How could they have previous moral sense? You made that up right?

Regards
DL


Well... Yes... I made it up... But I also believe it.

The penalty was for being so arrogant as to believe that their moral sense was superior to Gods.:ban:
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Nov, 2008 12:11 pm
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62461 wrote:
Well... Yes... I made it up... But I also believe it.

The penalty was for being so arrogant as to believe that their moral sense was superior to Gods.:ban:


I don't think that was implied anywhere.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 12:58 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62461 wrote:
Well... Yes... I made it up... But I also believe it.

The penalty was for being so arrogant as to believe that their moral sense was superior to Gods.:ban:


Again this is unsupported by scripture.

It may well be that the moral sense we have is better than God's.

Let's try yours and mine.

God used a genocidal flood against man.

God would of course sanction His actions.

I show my morals be condemning such acts even for God.

Do you?

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 08:40 am
@Greatest I am cv,
I don't understand all God does but I will not condemn it either.

As for the flood example. If that were taken as the only act of God then it would seem pretty unethical. In the greater context, however, God only stopped giving a gift (life) that God did not have to give in the first place.
Greatest I am cv
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:27 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62486 wrote:
I don't understand all God does but I will not condemn it either.

As for the flood example. If that were taken as the only act of God then it would seem pretty unethical. In the greater context, however, God only stopped giving a gift (life) that God did not have to give in the first place.


If he is to be relevent to us then His responsibility does not stop. To cheer for one who uses genocide against humans is to give up ones humanity. You may. I won't.

The God I follow is more moral than yours. I'll stick with Him.

Regards
DL
0 Replies
 
Fatal Freedoms
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Nov, 2008 09:57 am
@Musky Hunter,
Musky Hunter;62486 wrote:
I don't understand all God does but I will not condemn it either.

As for the flood example. If that were taken as the only act of God then it would seem pretty unethical. In the greater context, however, God only stopped giving a gift (life) that God did not have to give in the first place.


God is an Indian giver?
Makedde
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 02:34 pm
@Greatest I am cv,
Children should be taught about things that can be proven. They should not be taught theories from a book. If the childs parents wish for them to learn about religion, then this should take place at home, not in school.
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 08:45 pm
@Fatal Freedoms,
Fatal_Freedoms;62489 wrote:
God is an Indian giver?


No. He did not take away the gift of life already given. He simply chose not to give more of it.

Here is an example:

Let us say that I give you a dollar every day and you come to expect that dollar every day. You even begin to think that the dollar a day you receive is yours and it is your right to receive it. Now, for whatever reason, I stop giving you that dollar a day (but the dollars that I gave you are still yours). Have I taken anything from you or have I simply chosen not to give you any more of what was mine to give or not give as I chose?
Musky Hunter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Nov, 2008 08:50 pm
@Makedde,
Makedde;62509 wrote:
Children should be taught about things that can be proven. They should not be taught theories from a book. If the childs parents wish for them to learn about religion, then this should take place at home, not in school.


Personally, I believe that the greatest things that children can be taught are not "facts" but rather life lessons that promote curious and inquiring minds and a propensity to think for themselves.
 

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